What did you order or the post deliver? (HO and other scales)

[cteno4]

Trainer,

 

before you sink a lot of money or layout planning into using flex track, order a piece or two from a more local source in the us or europe. buying peco from japan means you will be paying for the export costs to japan.

 

but pick up a piece and hack it into a few pieces and then try bending it and fixing it down and joining the rails to see if you like it and also practice on cutting and joining rail. flex track really needs to have the joints soldered to get a good curve. some hate this soldering step. Then if you need expansion points come back and cut the rail (rotary tool with a cutting disc works well) in straight areas where it wont have lateral pressure from the curve to tweak it w/o having to spike it. you may then need to add feeders with the new gaps put in.

 

some folks experience with flex track has been really frustrating. it takes a little skill which usually you can pick up with patience and practice to get it down and running well and looking good. so best make sure you are happy with the results and what is needed to work with it before sinking a lot of money into it and/or getting your layout design and construction requiring it.

 

unitrak is just so damn reliable and simple that folks tend to think flex track will be as easy and that can then be a tad frustrating.

 

cheers

 

jeff

Edited August 23, 2013 by cteno4

[cteno4]

Flex track is a standard frustration out there in model train world. Flex track looks great and can work beautifully by letting you do easments and such for prototypical look and function. but it does come at a cost of some work, it aint unitrak easy by a long shot! cost is usually the same or can be more as unitrak when you figure in the cost of roadbed and other bits and pieces (not including your time). so thus why i suggested getting a hunk or two to play with before making your decision to see if its worth the time and trouble.

 

Ebay is always a bit of a gamble, but if you study what you are getting and know your prices and have patience you can get very good deals. In all ive been very happy at the stuff ive dug up there. only one bogus transaction out of hundreds over the years and that one i was able to reverse out on cc. ive gotten great deals on pretty rare and hard to find items, but it takes a lot of patience and commitment to keep watch for what you want.

 

you can get great deals on misc electronic parts you may need that are hard to get elsewhere in small quantities w/o paying shipping fees that are more than the cost of the items.

 

you can get lots of interesting tools and things like paint brushes, tweezers, clamps, etc very cheaply if you look for things with free shipping from china for these little bits. you can source them elsewhere but usually expensive and can be very time consuming to run around getting them.

 

Are you in the US? if so there are lots of online hobby shops you could probably order things like peco flex track thru.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[marknewton]

The spacing of the sleepers of Peco HO track is based on the North American prototype, it's too narrow in my opinion. 

 

Yes, Peco's code 83 track is based on typical North American geometry - not really sure what - if any - prototype the code 75 is based on but I've been using it happily for years. If I was starting out from scratch I'd be very tempted by Tillig Elite. I saw some a few weeks back and I was very impressed.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Edited August 24, 2013 by marknewton

[marknewton]

Jeff, I can't really agree with your comments about flex track. We've just finished laying a LOT of track on our permanent club layout. It's all Peco code 83 flex track and turnouts, and we haven't had any frustration at all, quite the opposite I reckon. I agree it requires more work to lay then Unitrack, but I think the results are worth it.

 

 

(L toR) Phil, Jonathan, John and Lynton at work on the IMRA upstairs layout.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Edited August 24, 2013 by marknewton

[cteno4]

Mark,

 

Sorry I did not mean to say don't do it, just that to test it and see what it is all about before sinking money and time into it. What might be easy and worth it to you or me might not be to others.

 

I agree, I love flex track too and it has wonderful benefits and advantages over sectional. It's just one of those things that A LOT of Modelers have issues with for various reasons and get frustrated (and many don't like us ;-) ). You hear folks all the time saying things like if I knew it was going to be this big a mess when I started... Inevitably they just jumped right in and did not do ant tests to see if it was right for them. Folks can have very different levels of skill, talents, experience, resources, help, patience, etc that I find it better to advise someone new at something like this to test it first before doing major planning and investment of time and money to make sure it fits their abilities, needs, likes.

 

It's also one of those things that seems to fall into the "I can do it but don't like doing it" for some. This can be a stumbling point for some on their layout. I find this with wiring all the time. Folks can understand it, but they just hate doing it. I love to do it!

 

$20 and a little time fiddling I think is a great investment either way. Better to learn cutting, soldering, bending, spiking etc on some test pieces before you start laying track. Also better to learn you hate some aspect or its just something you can't do well or it's not doing what you want or thought it should do at this point.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

Edited August 24, 2013 by cteno4

[bikkuri bahn]

Also is there much difference between KOBO and Tomix? I'm comparing the Shonan color EMU... It may have seem I am interested in that particular category, But why pay more if the difference isn't much

The Kobo one is for an early version of the 115 series.  The Tomix one is of a later version.  Anyway, the Tomix model is currently out of production, so the issue is moot.  Prices are comparable, as are most plastic models in HO across the board (Kato is cheaper, as many of their HO models are merely re-issues of molds made years ago).

[beakaboy]

One trick when laying flex track for curves is to solder two lengths together first before curving. That way you will not get kinks on the curves as opposed to soldering flex track on the curve. I also find that one rail will pull out of sleepers on one side of flex track due to curvature , so you end up with difference in lengths of rails where your next joint will be. some people cut the longer rail even with the other rail for joining, but I tend to push the one rail (which moves)on new piece of flex track out and on to empty sleepers first before other rail contacts opposing rail. I then solder joints. No sleepers to cut off with this option. Eventually, you will have to even up the rail joints.  Hope that makes sense

[marknewton]

The Kobo one is for an early version of the 115 series.  The Tomix one is of a later version.  Anyway, the Tomix model is currently out of production, so the issue is moot.  Prices are comparable, as are most plastic models in HO across the board...

 

My Kobo 115 series arrived on Thursday, and I took it to the club for its first run on Friday night. I'm very happy with the model - it runs very smoothly and quietly. It compares well with my Kato 165 series and my Tomix 153 series in both detail and finish. The only quibble I have is that the separation between the green and orange on one car is a bit wonky in a few places, but that's only noticeable when looking at the model very closely with a magnifying lamp.

 

One very nice feature of the Kobo model is that all four cars have interior lighting already fitted, which looked very good in our low light/night running session.

 

I'll post some photos tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[keitaro]

Pardon my lack of knowledge for this hobby or if anything at all... But As you all may have probably notice I am still a novice... But I am willing to change and learn... Im guessing everyone is still surprised a chinaman would actually be interested in JNR.. But my up to my knowledge I believe my grandma was from japan.. Point I'm making here is that the only reason I picked up this hobby was my passion for japanese styled trains.. Not because I think I know so much about model railing and that I was showing off... And would appreciate it if everyone would stop making me feel like im a complete vegetable... Just because im chinese does not mean i cant read in English right? i mean youtube and google somewhat gives an example and most things in life is trial and error... So give me a break... My people already suffered British enslavement long enough...better yet... Lets all repeat history and use the Chinese for cheap labor and distributing opium....

So sorry you feel that way.

 

From reading the posts

you asked "Also is there much difference between KOBO and Tomix? I'm comparing the Shonan color EMU... It may have seem I am interested in that particular category, But why pay more if the difference isn't much"

 

bikkuri Bahn answered your question with what he believes to be the reason, one tomix and kato are plastic and very old molds ran multiple times making them cheaper. The reason could also be that kato and tomix are large companies and therefore can make things cheaper than KOBO who are small.

The Kobo one is for an early version of the 115 series.  The Tomix one is of a later version.  Anyway, the Tomix model is currently out of production, so the issue is moot.  Prices are comparable, as are most plastic models in HO across the board (Kato is cheaper, as many of their HO models are merely re-issues of molds made years ago).

 

 

mark then replied telling you he likes the one he ordered

 

 

My Kobo 115 series arrived on Thursday, and I took it to the club for its first run on Friday night. I'm very happy with the model - it runs very smoothly and quietly. It compares well with my Kato 165 series and my Tomix 153 series in both detail and finish. The only quibble I have is that the separation between the green and orange on one car is a bit wonky in a few places, but that's only noticeable when looking at the model very closely with a magnifying lamp.

 

One very nice feature of the Kobo model is that all four cars have interior lighting already fitted, which looked very good in our low light/night running session.

 

I'll post some photos tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

 

the reason why maybe no one answers your question is we do not know the exact reason they are different in price.

Please understand that HO is a very niche community even on here for japanese (but is growing)  you are going to be hard pressed finding some one who knows everything about HO to answer everything in detail. There just isn`t that many people on here doing HO compared to N.

 

 

 

 

My people already suffered British enslavement long enough...better yet... Lets all repeat history and use the Chinese for cheap labor and distributing opium....

 

 

please what kind of moron comes in and starts justifying his rant about not getting the answer you wanted by throwing out some claim about irrelevant history, when this is a global forum and the people answering your questions are not british even.

 

Grow up mate.

 

Before you start whining i do believe your own government still behaves this way...

 

 

 

 

 

I do hope your impolite rants on here are language based barriers as this is not the first i have seen from you.

But based on what i can see this doe not really appear to be the case

Edited August 25, 2013 by keitaro

[Martijn Meerts]

Everyone on the forum here tries to be helpful, but we're not experts that have answers to every single question, nor are we able to be on the forum 24/7 to get questions answered within a few minutes. We also don't have psychic abilities, so if someone posts that a dcc install failed, we can't magically tell you what happened without pictures and/or an explanation of what you've already tried.

[marknewton]

Chinese trainer in training,

 

The only Japanese models I have are HO scale. I have no N scale models of any description. My Japanese HO collection currently stands at 25 locos and about 150 items of rollingstock  - EMUs, DMUs, interurbans, trams, passenger and freight cars. I do enjoy them, and I can afford them. But even with that level of interest and commitment, I'm in no position to know the reasons for a particular manufacturer's prices. As bikkuri bahn noted earlier, the cost of Kato and Tomix's tooling has probably been fully amortised over a number of production runs.

 

And FWIW, the only person who keeps bringing China into the conversation is you. No-one else has made any comment about the place, for or against.

 

Mark.

[beakaboy]

I got quite a shock at one of the posts I received from this forum today in my email. Thank you Martijn for removing it on the forum. (above this) I find everyone really helpful and supportive on this forum and it is always interesting reading the replies,etc. I usually learn something new at least once or twice a week. I occasionally post a reply if I can offer any help above what has already been given, but not expecting the venom that followed. Keep up the great work and it is a shame your excellent attitudes haven't rubbed off in this particular case.

Edited August 26, 2013 by beakaboy

[keitaro]

agreed,

 

It is a shame when some one comes in and flames some one for no reason just because they Didn`t answer the question 100%.

 

Excuse us for not having every single model in existence to answer.

 

I watch the HO forum sometimes as i am interested in HO but i like N Too much.

 

I really find the info from Bik and Mark for example on their steamers knowledge incredible.

 

While it`s a shame that Chinese bought a model that was not as he had hoped for this is the risks with buying used items on a foreign language,

 

I`m sure 90% have all had an experience the same with our own used purchases i know i have even new items coming in poor running etc. but i don`T go flame and make outrageous accusations to some one replying with the best of intentions.

 

I really couldn`t care less if he comes back and behaves and talks politely in forum, if he can`t do that then good riddance he`s gone.

[JR 500系]

Chinese trainer in training:

 

That's mean.

 

First off, i was really shocked to see such a post, as i rarely come into HO thread since my main interest lie in N scale (HO scale is way over this poor man's budget), but was glad Martijn has removed it.

 

Secondly, i'm a Chinese too, though not in China, but from Singapore. I've been here for more than a year now (since the older forum) and i have NEVER felt anyway you felt regarding how Chinese was treated. In fact, everyone was very helpful in sharing whatever they have knowledge in, and i certainly learnt ALOT from everyone else and is very grateful there is such a forum that has expressive interest in Japan Rail. If you talked about British slaving the Chinese, then you're dead wrong. Singapore was under the British rule for a long time (please check history) and taught us many many things, which helped shaped what Singapore is today. In no way there was slavery over us! The Japanese however DID slave us during WW II the Japanese Occupation, but that was LONG over and it wasn't entirely the current Japanese people's fault. No point living now and keep harping on what happened egos ago. Might as well keep blaming earth for extinction of dinosaurs then.

 

Thirdly, i believe in this concept if you treat others well, others will return the favor. If you're polite to others, others will be polite to you. The forum is for sharing interest and knowledge, not to generate tons of conflict.

 

Fourthly, don't blame suppliers for everything that goes wrong. Sometimes you need to plan what you need before buying and not blaming suppliers why they can't cancel your order. Yes we do get wrong orders or faulty products once in a while but don't go condemning them for it just like so. It isn't fair to them, likewise if you are selling something and someone blames you for something that is not your fault you would feel injustice too.

 

Lastly, i hope you'll still stay around, but take this time to learn from many others around who have seen alot more of this world then you and I did. 22 years isn't too late to pick things up again that will definately help you in your future endeavors wherever you might be. Just for the records, i'm 33 and i'm still learning so much from here and the nice people who are so willing to share their knowledge. Life is a life-long learning process, and when you stop learning you stop living.

 

Chill and have fun~ That's what an interest forum is all about ~ Cheers!

Edited August 27, 2013 by JR500 のぞみ

[Davo Dentetsu]

Today brought great joy... the Cassiopeias are here!

 

 

I love EMS, a guaranteed and surefire quick delivery every time.  Although I will admit that, because I am quite well known for being cheap when it comes to releasing funds, the Hokutosei HO EF510 had to be delivered by simpler means earlier in the year...

 

 

:P

[miyakoji]

Modelling JR Hokkaido's train-on-train method?

[Davo Dentetsu]

I still think that would be a very inefficient scheme in real terms, but never thought of it that way! :P

[marknewton]

On it's way to me from an eBay seller in Japan:

 

 

(I don't normally keep the boxes that my models came in, but I think I'll make an exception in this case - that Hankyu label looks rather nice!)

 

 

 

Once the thing arrives, I have to decide - do I go with my original plan to convert the model to a D51, or do I leave it as a D61, which I believe only ran in Hokkaido?

 

Either way, I'm happy to finally have a big eight-coupled JNR loco!  :)

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[bikkuri bahn]

Once the thing arrives, I have to decide - do I go with my original plan to convert the model to a D51, or do I leave it as a D61, which I believe only ran in Hokkaido?

I would leave it as is.  There is always the possibility that an affordable D51 will be released in the future.  D61's are pretty rare beasts.  FWIW, the D61's were first assigned to Nakatsugawa Depot back in 1959, and ranged on the Chuo (west) Line, and Kansai Main Line, before being reassigned to Hokkaido.  Due to the early date (there is relatively less railfan photography of steam locomotives pre-1965 or so), there is little photographic evidence of their work in Honshu though.

[miyakoji]

I would leave it as is.  There is always the possibility that an affordable D51 will be released in the future.  D61's are pretty rare beasts.  FWIW, the D61's were first assigned to Nakatsugawa Depot back in 1959, and ranged on the Chuo (west) Line, and Kansai Main Line, before being reassigned to Hokkaido.  Due to the early date (there is relatively less railfan photography of steam locomotives pre-1965 or so), there is little photographic evidence of their work in Honshu though.

Bikkuri, does the increase in photos from around 1965 have to do with availability of cameras, or what? That's interesting.

 

Mark, that's a good looking model. Wikipedia says that the prototype was converted from D51 181 in 1960 at Kooriyama. I don't think I've ever seen one (model or prototype) before.

[bikkuri bahn]

Bikkuri, does the increase in photos from around 1965 have to do with availability of cameras, or what? That's interesting.

Just my guesses, but there are likely a number of factors:

-the increase in prosperity in the 1960's, allowing more leisure activities, such as railfanning

-increased mobilty with more ownership of private automobiles, as well as better and faster rail services to the hinterlands.

-the SL "boom" which really began in earnest in the late 1960's with the rundown of steam, prior to that I think (once again surmising) there may have been more interest in the "modern railway"- there certainly was so many new things to see, ride and photograph, that the existing railway scene may have been overlooked.

-yes, the introduction of SLR cameras, and perhaps cheaper film*

 

*I read that in the late fifties, a roll of kodachrome film cost 2000 yen, the equivalent of $40 today (I think). Also you had to send the film to Hawaii to be developed.  Color reversal film photography didn't really take off in Japan until the seventies.

Edited September 4, 2013 by bikkuri bahn

[John P Boogerd]

I was wondering just now - do the collectors and modellers in Australia also collect some of the Australian models?

[marknewton]

I would leave it as is.  There is always the possibility that an affordable D51 will be released in the future.  D61's are pretty rare beasts. FWIW, the D61's were first assigned to Nakatsugawa Depot back in 1959, and ranged on the Chuo (west) Line, and Kansai Main Line, before being reassigned to Hokkaido.

 

Thanks for the information and advice, bb, I'll leave it alone. And now that I've got the model here I realise that modifying it would be a big job, and I don't want to bugger it up!  :)

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Mark, that's a good looking model. Wikipedia says that the prototype was converted from D51 181 in 1960 at Kooriyama. I don't think I've ever seen one (model or prototype) before.

 

I'd seen photos of them in a couple of my books, but as bikkuri bahn says, they're a rare beast. I'd never seen a model of one either, so I was rather pleased to get it. 

 

The model is very impressive - nicely built and surprisingly heavy. It has a die cast frame and trucks, the remainder being brass. I'm looking forward to giving it a proper run on the club layout tomorrow night.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

I was wondering just now - do the collectors and modellers in Australia also collect some of the Australian models?

 

G'day John,

 

I have one solitary Australian loco, a New South Wales 70 class diesel hydraulic shunter which I used to work on. I may get a DJH kit of the NSW 59 class 2-8-2 in the future, only becuase they're another type of engine I've worked on.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.