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to2leo

49th Shizuoka Hobby Show 2010 predictions and results

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CaptOblivious

No one's commented on this yet:

http://www.hobby-show.info/shizuoka2010/0386.htm

 

It's a photo of Tomix's new wide-rail tram. Notice the middle straight pieces…and notice the three(!!) different options for track spacing—the tightest of which is way tighter than Kato's Unitram!

 

Maybe because its been on reserve for a while now.  I've already ordered the track for my first tram layout with the second layout pending until the fall or when there is money.

 

I know the track has been on reserve, but the impression of it here on this forum was that it only permitted Tomix's standard 37mm track spacing. This image I linked to is evidence to the contrary. I take that to be news…

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cteno4

I know the track has been on reserve, but the impression of it here on this forum was that it only permitted Tomix's standard 37mm track spacing. This image I linked to is evidence to the contrary. I take that to be news…

 

i missed that when i looked at that too! now the question is how do you get your 37mm spaced turns to bend into these two closer spacings! thats one nice thing about the unitram is the 25mm track spacing which feels more tram like and condenses the scene some. even the unitram feels pretty spread out.

 

wonder what those other two spacings are?

 

cheers

 

jeff

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to2leo

Jeff, you read my mind, I was wondering about the spacing in curve spaces too!  I also wonder which version of the Tomix track will fit Kato's?

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cteno4

Jeff, you read my mind, I was wondering about the spacing in curve spaces too!  I also wonder which version of the Tomix track will fit Kato's?

 

im guessing it might the the spacing if you combine two radius curves in a 90 (ie easements like the unitram does) in various combinations. never played with that thought before in the track planning software to see what could happen.

 

cheers

 

jeff

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Nick_Burman

No one's commented on this yet:

http://www.hobby-show.info/shizuoka2010/0386.htm

 

It's a photo of Tomix's new wide-rail tram. Notice the middle straight pieces…and notice the three(!!) different options for track spacing—the tightest of which is way tighter than Kato's Unitram!

 

Tomix has just given Kato a punch under the waist...  :grin now, how on earth are going to transition the 37mm spacing down to the other two other spacings.

 

Cheers NB

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bill937ca

No one's commented on this yet:

http://www.hobby-show.info/shizuoka2010/0386.htm

 

It's a photo of Tomix's new wide-rail tram. Notice the middle straight pieces…and notice the three(!!) different options for track spacing—the tightest of which is way tighter than Kato's Unitram!

 

Tomix has just given Kato a punch under the waist...  :grin now, how on earth are going to transition the 37mm spacing down to the other two other spacings.

 

 

You'll probably find out at JAM, with a hint at Matsuya Ginza.  That makes Unitram very, very expensive when you can buy single pieces of Wide Tram Rail. 

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bill937ca

Next Tomix needs to re-issue the battery powered tram controller with Wide Tram Track power feeds.

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Hobby Dreamer

Thanks CaptO - you've got some good eyes there!

 

If you look at the spacing of the closest spaced (left most) track its slightly larger than the 9mm spacing of N scale track itself, so it maybe 10 to 12 mm; but trams always have a kick-out when they turn (as the tram in the photo, bottom left) - which looks like it kicks out quite a bit to the point of touching (maybe) the tram on the other track with 11mm (or so) spacing. So even if you staggered the curves as Kato did the trams may still touch - maybe not the small Portrams but this might limit future tram production. (Or the radii will have to be large).

 

This photo: 0386.htm

 

The widest spacing looks a bit too much for trams (for me) and its really 2 single tracks side by side. The smaller 2 look like one unit each so there are less track breaks. That's good. Interesting to see what Tomix has in mind. (The original track spacing with added bus lanes does get a bit wide)

 

I don't think Kato is in trouble because of the Tomix release. There is a huge difference in look and that's always reflected in price in any hobby. With Kato you get top looks for an urban landscape with trams and integrated roads. Drop in a few structures and you have almost a museum-piece. You want to save money etc then go Tomix.

 

I've seen discussion here and elsewhere about Kato versus Tomix train track but the difference in the look of their respective tram track is huge!!! Worth the money? Its an individual call but look at the photo above and then this one.

 

0456.htm

 

 

I'm very optimistic about T and Ks tram ventures. They've got the whole wide avenue running 2 trams in a larger urban landscape thingy down cold.... But who would have predicted Tomix offering not one but 2 new track spacings!

 

Thanks again for posting the pics..

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CaptOblivious

Bill has shown on his blog (was it there, Bill? If not, where?) that the new Wide PC FineTrack (not the tram stuff, the canted rail stuff) lets you break off the "wide" bits to get a piece of track with the same overall dimensions as regular FineTrack (albeit a little rougher looking). I think what's going on with the wide tram track spacing is in that the "wings" are broken off one at a time to make two different spacings. The narrowest is equivalent to two pieces of FineTrack laid directly side-by-side (which should yield a track spacing of 10mm, as a piece of FineTrack is 18.5mm wide); the middle spacing would have one of the wings broken off, yielding a track spacing of 23.5mm.

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bill937ca

I haven't actually broken off the side pieces myself, but I have posted blogs showing this.

 

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/b_dream_train_de19/22633253.html

 

http://katsumi-rail.seesaa.net/article/132048673.html

 

I wonder if those photos just show the side or sides of the tram rail cut off.  There a space going up from the underside on either side of the rail in the photo below.  That maybe how those tracks were cut down. We'll have to wait until this gets into modellers hands.

 

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2385.0;attach=4157;image

 

Now that I have wide track rail on my train  layout, I find it is very easy to model the tight Japanese clearances seen on many rail lines.  Just place your buildings right up against the track base which leaves enough room for a train to get by but not too much.

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Nick_Burman

No one's commented on this yet:

http://www.hobby-show.info/shizuoka2010/0386.htm

 

It's a photo of Tomix's new wide-rail tram. Notice the middle straight pieces…and notice the three(!!) different options for track spacing—the tightest of which is way tighter than Kato's Unitram!

 

Tomix has just given Kato a punch under the waist...  :grin now, how on earth are going to transition the 37mm spacing down to the other two other spacings.

 

 

You'll probably find out at JAM, with a hint at Matsuya Ginza.  That makes Unitram very, very expensive when you can buy single pieces of Wide Tram Rail. 

 

Tomix could just release pre-balleted flextrack, like the one made by Fleischmann...

 

Ah, of course...switchwork also...

 

Cheers NB

(daydreaming about Shiyakusho Mae station on the Fukui Railway)

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bill937ca

Ah, of course...switchwork also...

 

Switches already exist.

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CaptOblivious

Ah, of course...switchwork also...

 

Switches already exist.

 

well, I take his point to be: Not for the alternate track spacings. I too am very curious how these spacings are going to pan out in terms of supported track geometry. Expensive though it is, at least Unitram has a well-thought-out way to transition from standard to alternate track-spacings.

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bill937ca

 

Switches already exist.

 

well, I take his point to be: Not for the alternate track spacings. I too am very curious how these spacings are going to pan out in terms of supported track geometry. Expensive though it is, at least Unitram has a well-thought-out way to transition from standard to alternate track-spacings.

 

These spacings may be intended for T-trak modules with paved tram lines. There are often hundreds of the straight modules at meets.

 

http://jiisan2003.hp.infoseek.co.jp/standard.htm

 

http://gino1r330.blog42.fc2.com/blog-entry-211.html

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cteno4

problem with tomix track with t-trak is that the modules are in increments of 310mm (not tomix lengths) and also having to transition to kato track ends to connect with others.

 

Kato definitely catered to this with their unitram straight at the 25mm ttrak spacing. problem with their 33mm transition curves is that you have to transition at a 45° curve, kind of awkward, but transitions usually are! perhaps they intend to have a 45° curve unitram track section that is parallel track with 33mm spacing so you could combine with a 25 to 33 curve to do a complete transition in a 90° corner module, but this will probably throw the track geometry out for module spacing.

 

i have played with modifying two tomix mini radius turnouts to do a crossover in 25mm track spacing for ttrak, but even that is pretty tricky snipping/clipping!

 

at the cost of 4200Y to go 248 of straight, its gets pretty pricy to do ttrak with unitram. they as yet dont have a 62mm section as well to keep on standard 310mm length modules. we will see when they have track only sections for sale in the end if they are going to try to provide a good solution for tram track ttrak modules or not. im a bit worried by the intro unitram prices though being a general solution for this though. Kato is sposta have a longer plan out there for unitram, we will just have to wait and see where they go... perhaps JAM.

 

cheers

 

jeff

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to2leo

Speaking about Unitram, one thing I was surprised is Kato didn't announce the 90 degree crossover for Unitram.  I remembered the design diagram was posted in almost every model train show.

 

Speaking about prices, I am wondering what is the comparison for a straight Kato Unitram plate vs. Tomix's if it is fully loaded also?

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bill937ca

Speaking about Unitram, one thing I was surprised is Kato didn't announce the 90 degree crossover for Unitram.  I remembered the design diagram was posted in almost every model train show.

 

Speaking about prices, I am wondering what is the comparison for a straight Kato Unitram plate vs. Tomix's if it is fully loaded also?

 

There's no indication of extra pieces for the wide tram rail.  Just simple basic straight and curved paved trackage.  You can adoption switches, but I expect there may be lots of trimming needed at junctions (apart from sidings).

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bill937ca

Shizuoka Hobby Show

 

 

 

 

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to2leo

Thanks for posting the video portion of the show.  I can never get tired of the Tomytec road and tracks.

 

 

BTW,

Does anybody know where I can find how the new Kato Trams are going to look like in Silver, White, and ? colour?

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bill937ca

Low angle views of the bus roadway.

 

 

 

 

 

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nekomo

Thanks for these videos Bill. Are you able to see the release dates somewhere?

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bill937ca

Once reservations are being taken you can check the web sites of Tomix or Kato for release dates.  Even then items are subject to delays and dates are only tentative. Already the Kato Pocket Line trains are two months over due.

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