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JNR/JR catenary


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#1 maxa1

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 04:33 PM

Hi all,

Can anyone advise where on the web one can find information regarding dimensions of catenary posts/gantries plus other useful info?

Regards

Max

#2 CaptOblivious

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 05:34 PM

I think JRTR had an article on the catenary dimensions of the shinkansen lines, might have a look around there.

http://www.jrtr.net/

Otherwise, there may be some digging involved. Anyone know the Japanese word for catenary?

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#3 qwertyaardvark

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 06:51 PM

Jap wiki for Catenary
http://ja.wikipedia....式

According to the wiki, Catenary = Kakuu Densha Senhou Shiki, 架空電車線方式, かくうでんしゃせんほうしき

loosely translated: Overhead Electric Train Line System

#4 KenS

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 10:02 PM

I'd been doing some research on this recently myself, although it was limited to English sources I could find online.  I did find a few papers describing the overhead wire, but nothing significant on the poles or supporting hardware. Here are the useful articles I found:

Development of Feeder Messenger Catenary with Auxiliary Wire (PDF link) from Railway Technical Research Institute Quarterly volume 46, issue #2.

Development of Method for Improving Overhead Line Equipment for Implementation of Stable Current Collection at High Speed in JR East Technical Review issue #8. For this and the following paper the link goes to the table of contents, and you need to click on the article name once you get there.

Development of a New Spring Type Tensioning Device for Shinkansen, in JR East Technical Review issue #2.

The first of those is about some changes being made to narrow-gauge catenary (suitable for use up to 160 kph), and the others are about developments related to Shinkansen lines.  Scattered through them are some interesting illustrations and charts, but much less info than I'd like to have.

Looking over the Japanese wikipedia article that qwertyaardvark pointed out, it would appear the wire height is 4.7 meters (15' 5"), assuming I understand the gibberish that Google Translate rendered the text as.  That's pretty low, as trolley lines in the U.S. are (or were, once upon a time) 18' or so above the rail, and mainline electric lines that need to clear street traffic are typically around 23' above the rail. I've seen references to 25 feet in older books related to North American trolley systems, and references to lower heights for more modern heavy-rail systems online, so I suspect there is quite a bit of variability in U.S. practice, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar variability in Japanese practice, given the number of different railroads that built catenary systems at different times.

Measuring my Kato EMUs gave me a maximum height for the pantograph of 35-37 mm (17' 3" to 18' 3" in 1:150 scale), so 15-18 feet seems reasonable, assuming the models are accurate.

For actual catenary poles, the best references I've found are online photos (search flicker for terms like "shinkansen train" or "yamanote line", without the quotes) since there are many different kinds in use, even on the same line.
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#5 qwertyaardvark

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 08:08 AM

A better-than-google, human, rough translation of the sentence with "4700mm" goes along like this:

The height at which the lines are strung at is 4700mm or higher above the rail as stated by the Building Standards Act, but in confined tunnel spaces (small-sized tunnels, rigid-body wiring areas of track, and mini-subways) there are instances of lines being placed below 4700mm.

Can't believe google missed the "or higher" part...

If there are any other particular paragraphs or small sections of interest in the wiki or elsewhere, I'd be more than happy to translate, granted u can wait a while since im still slow at translating. ^^;;

#6 maxa1

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 05:49 PM

The article 'Development of Feeder Messenger Catenary with Auxiliary Wire' is quite informative about catenary wire setup....thanks for the web link. Catenary is also spelled in Katakana (ka-te-na-ri).
Google and Yahoo Japan didn't come up with any useful info, possible I'm using the wrong search words.

Regards

Max

#7 bill937ca

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 07:22 PM

Here's a link that requires further investigation.

http://www.geocities.../kasenchua.html

This site I am a little more familiar with.  Its various rail lines in Japan shot from the front or back of a train. You get good views along the line.

http://tawamu.web2.j...jn/page009.html

Index

http://tawamu.web2.jp/

There are a couple of pages on overhead.

http://tawamu.web2.j...do/page004.html

http://tawamu.web2.j...do/page007.html

Machine translators will translate the text, but unfortunately do not translate the Kanji on the images.

#8 maxa1

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:14 PM

Thanks Bill for your links,lots of mast/gantry styles and power supply.....but no dimensions. The writing on the pics are explanations about the various functions of cables/wires.It looks like that I will have to scale down masts/gantries from photos, not the most accurate way to do it  :sad:

Regards

Max

#9 qwertyaardvark

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:10 PM

Here's a link that requires further investigation.

http://www.geocities.../kasenchua.html

...

http://tawamu.web2.j...do/page004.html

http://tawamu.web2.j...do/page007.html

Machine translators will translate the text, but unfortunately do not translate the Kanji on the images.


Am I correct in taking this as a translation request? ^_^ Would you like a translation of just the pictures? specific parts?

#10 bill937ca

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:27 PM

Am I correct in taking this as a translation request? ^_^ Would you like a translation of just the pictures? specific parts?


Not by me.  Just the end of a long day.  Thanks anyways.

#11 Kabutoni

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 01:44 AM

Get yourself a character dictionary (Nelsom, Hadamitzky & Spahn, etc.) and try to translate for yourself. I started studying Japanese at first tu understand literature like this. :cheesy

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