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GDorsett

Moving Scrap/Decommissioned Stock?

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GDorsett

I've been building scrap trains with old models for my American trains, but I don't seem to see any if this on Japan's railways. Are things just not put on flatcars to move? Or are they ususally pulled on their own wheels to either the cutter or a storage/restoration yard?

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railsquid

The latter. Quite often the last journey is under their own power, such as this 185 series on its way to Nagano.

 

 

 

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railsquid

211 series in 2011 hauled by an EF64-1000:

 

 

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railsquid
30 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

Are things just not put on flatcars to move?

 

Limited loading gauge and overhead wires would rule that out as an option.

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cteno4
2 hours ago, railsquid said:

211 series in 2011 hauled by an EF64-1000:

 

 

 

Amazing these look brand new! Even going to the scrapyard they are cleaned! 

 

Jeff

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GDorsett

I've seen plenty of things being pulled (i.e. locomotives, MU sets, railcars, etc.), but what about museum or display pieces? Are they also pulled to their destination?

I figured the gauge would cause an issue, but why the catenary? Isn't that what low-decks are for? Or does Japan not have low-deck flatcars?

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railsquid
5 hours ago, GDorsett said:

I've seen plenty of things being pulled (i.e. locomotives, MU sets, railcars, etc.), but what about museum or display pieces? Are they also pulled to their destination?

 

 

Yup。

 

Quote

I figured the gauge would cause an issue, but why the catenary? Isn't that what low-decks are for? Or does Japan not have low-deck flatcars?

 

AFAIK there are some low-loader freight cars.

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marknewton

There are depressed-centre flatcars in Japan, some owned by JRF and others by freight forwarding/logistics companies like Nippon Express. But most of those cars are specialised vehicles for carrying electrical gear such has transformers or other outsize loads. I haven't seen any that were general purpose cars.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

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Welshbloke

They used to use various KuMoYa units to drag EMUs which were either broken or heading for scrapping, but standard locos seem to have taken over a lot of those duties. Have a look here: http://jigyourin.web.fc2.com/index.html

 

Also copy and paste クモヤ into a YouTube search, you'll find plenty of results. They were rebuilt from old commuter EMUs as tractor units, the KuMoYa 90s using 72 Series parts while the 145s use 101 Series parts.

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GDorsett

Ah, interesting. I'm used to the US where everything has to be up to a certain code before you're allowed to move it over the mainline. Most recently retired stock gets pulled to a storage yard where it is either kept as a spare or, if retired, sleeps untill they run out room and it is scrapped or is sold to someone else. Most older, vintage, or antique stock is generally disassembled enough to put on a flatcar, even diesels. Recently there was a big ruckus over a Berkshire steam locomotive being moved on the mainline on it's own wheels because it rarely happens.

For museum pieces like steam locomotives, do they move them occasionally to keep everything from seizing up so it can be moved at a later date if possible? The Virginia Museum of Transportation did this with their J-Class and a Y6A (both large steam locomotives, the Y6 and exceptionally large loco) while they awaited refurbishment. Or are steam locomotives in Japan an exception to this rule and get flatcar-ed?

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katoftw

Depends on the circumstances.

 

The locos in the JRE or JRK museums are kept under cover and with no real ability to move.  And do not get fired.

 

The locos in the roundhouse at the JRW museum are all operational.  But without the 10 year full rebuilds, they are not permitted to travel on the mainline as a/the power loco.  They are moved from there shed location, onto the turntable to be paraded around.  Do a couple of circles for photos.  Then back into the shed location.  Some get used for push-pull low speed rides.  About 1 kilometer per direction.

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Kiha66

Seems a lot of the historic rolling stock that has been out of service on display are generally taken apart and trucked to their destination.  Both the C62 for the scmaglev museum and the C11 for the tobu railway were shipped that way.  Older rolling stock which is no longer roadworthy and is to be scraped seems to be cut up on location, at least from what I've seen with museum and park locos which the owners have decided to dispose of. 

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GDorsett

So if I were to make a scrap scene, it should be on trucks? Does anyone have picture of this sort of event happening?

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cteno4

Usually a siding that’s fenced off and a jaws of life demolition machine that just eats it up. Usually fenced off and many times with solid walls (probably to prevent flying bits or folks getting too curious) so sometimes you don’t see all the action st ground level or very close up. I don’t remember seeing a lot of truck loading but I expect the videographers are more interested in cutting up than hauling off the aftermath. But my guess is they chop it up pretty small and do what basic separation they can there and then it’s loaded up in the usual medium, ubiquitous dump trucks and hauled off to recycling and such. Japanese construction machine operators are scary good with these demolition machines. Sadly there are not any of the demolition machines in production right now. Tomytec construction collection 1 had a pair. It’s a scene I’ve always wanted to do and maybe on a base so I could move it to Ttrak or layout as it would be one of those tedious to replicate scenes it’s hard to model that mangles scrap, it’s a lot of stuff that’s never modeled in our trains and many tiny bits of detail to do.

 

search the forum for words like “scrapped” and you’ll find a number of threads with train demolition videos linked. Someone might get you the proper search term in Japanese that would bring a lot of videos on utub.

cheers

 

jeff

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Kiha66

Old EMUs being scrapped.  Since they had been saved for parts they were in no state to move and were cut up in place.

 

 

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cteno4

It just occurred to me the scrap might also go out in covered containers as well.

 

jeff

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nah00
Posted (edited)
On 3/3/2019 at 8:59 PM, GDorsett said:

For museum pieces like steam locomotives, do they move them occasionally to keep everything from seizing up so it can be moved at a later date if possible? The Virginia Museum of Transportation did this with their J-Class and a Y6A (both large steam locomotives, the Y6 and exceptionally large loco) while they awaited refurbishment. Or are steam locomotives in Japan an exception to this rule and get flatcar-ed?

 

From what I understand the museum was using the lead for the shop tracks for the Norfolk Sountern Roanoke Shops hence they got a little break with running them. Now I believe they axed all running on mainline (or any line) for the J-class, thank you Amtrak. 

Edited by nah00

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GDorsett

Yes, they had two parallel tracks with a canopy over them for the J and the Y6A and then pushed them back and forth on said tracks to keep them from seizing up. Last I heard, Amtrak got some major lashback and ended up freeing something up, but the excursions are down for 611 once again. Not sure what's going on. Haven't been following it at all.

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Kiha66

Another sad but interesting sight.

 

 

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Kamome
On 3/2/2019 at 3:36 AM, GDorsett said:

but what about museum or display pieces?

There was a documentary on Japanese TV. The E5 Hayabusa that’s in the new wing of Omiya Railway museum was sent via ship then specialized truck. There was a very tight bend they had to navigate it into with only a small amount of clearance.

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GDorsett

I bet. The E5 cars are very long. Was it disassembled or shipped in one piece?

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cteno4

Cars sent by truck use wheel sets that replace the bogies and are towed by a truck (usually at night). Common in japan to do coastal shipping to get cars to the right spot for easy transport to rails needed. Japan’s large coast and numerous ports makes this easy and common for shipping stuff. I tried to find some of the old YouTube videos on the forum about this but the ones I found were dead. Maybe bill will have some links. 

 

I’ve not seen cars shipped like this in pieces other than the bogies trucked separately.

 

tomytec has vehicle sets even including a car to make a scene! 

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10490831

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10490838

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10490825

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10490827

 

 

couple of the truck collections also had the truck with street bogies for you to pop your own train car onto.

 

cheers

 

jeff

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GDorsett

no, you're not supposed to be enabling me to spent money for things to put on a layout I don't have yet!

 

I may actually order some of those, though...

 

Is it possible to put those road trucks onto some other Tomix stock? Such as coaches?

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cteno4

Ha I’m the corner pusher! Got you mainlining Tomytec now!

 

they are fun for a scene.

 

yep you may have to modify the wheel bogie pin to go into the bogie screw/pin hole in the bottom of your desired chassis, but nothing big. Could always just cheat and use a little museum putty to hold it in place.

 

jeff

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GDorsett

I don't actually have any Tomytec yet.

I guess I'll add it to my order when I get some KiHas.

 

I don't need another semi collection...

I only have about sixty or seventy trucks for HO...

Edited by GDorsett

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