Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ben_issacs

A Hobby Search translation problem.

Recommended Posts

ben_issacs

Folks, 

I use Hobby Search frequently, and by now can generally make my way around their 'machine' translations of Japanese into English.

However there are a couple of phrases that confuse me.

These are 'iron kite' and the similar 'iron core'.

'Iron' is obviously 'tetsudo', but what are ''kite' and 'core'.

Machine translations of Japanese into English can  provide some entertaining but confusing translations. 

Reading the original Japanese text would provide an answer, but that is beyond me.

Regards, 

Bill, 

Melbourne.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Kiha66

If you remove the /eng from the page address bar it will give you the Japanese version.  If you run the sentence you're confused about through google translate it may give you a better translation.  If that fails can you share the link to the pages and areas that you are confused by, and perhaps a fluent user here could assist?  It is much easier to figure out the meaning with context.

Share this post


Link to post
katoftw

I don't think it is a huge problem.  Yes google translate isn't prefect.  But you just read the text and if something isn't quite right.  The context of the words in the sentence/paragraph normally allow you to figure out the correct meaning.

Share this post


Link to post
ben_issacs

Folks, 

Thanks for your comments.

Often, reading the context as printed isn't much help.

In bill937ca's post, the Tomytec web site uses 'Iron Collector', 'Iron Coil' and 'Iron Kore'.

I suspect that they are all variations of  'Railway Collection', with Railway going to Tetsudo, thence to Iron.

Normally, the English 'L' sound is difficult for Japanese to pronounce, and is often given as a slurred 'R', which would explain 'Kore'

But, 'L" does appear in much Anglicised Japanese text, examples: "Dr. Yellow', 'Hello, Kitty', 'SL", so there are obviously now acceptable pronunciations of 'L" in Japan.

All part of the fun and challenges of Japanese model railways.

Regards, 

Bill,

Melbourne.

 

Share this post


Link to post
chadbag
8 minutes ago, ben_issacs said:

Normally, the English 'L' sound is difficult for Japanese to pronounce, and is often given as a slurred 'R', which would explain 'Kore'

But, 'L" does appear in much Anglicised Japanese text, examples: "Dr. Yellow', 'Hello, Kitty', 'SL", so there are obviously now acceptable pronunciations of 'L" in Japan.

 

 

"Dr. Yellow", "Hello Kitty" etc are NOT Anglicized Japanese text.  They are foreign words written in roman letters used in Japan.   Both "L" and "R" are pronounced about the same way by most people in Japan, and so translation programs will use R or L according to however they were programmed (mostly "R") if they are doing it in a transcribing fashion (versus a vocabulary lookup).  "Dr. Yellow" and "Hello Kitty" being written out with "L" does not imply there is "now acceptable pronunciations of 'L" in Japan".  It just means they are writing foreign words with known spellings using roman letters.

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

bill the iron core, iron coil, etc are just artifacts of the translation program being used. its total artifact of how they do translations and nothing to do with what the sites are actually using in japanese. languages vary on grammar, word usage, multiple meanings that are set by context, etc and rules are murky so translation is a real art that machine translators still has not really nailed.

 

jeff

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
chadbag
3 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

bill the iron core, iron coil, etc are just artifacts of the translation program being used. its total artifact of how they do translations. languages vary on grammar, word usage, multiple meanings that are set by context, etc and rules are murky so translation is a real art that machine translators still has not really nailed.

 

 

Yeah, just go see how Amazon.co.jp translates some of the descriptions and names of certain sorts of rail cars from Tomix, KATO, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Tanuki

As Chadbag, noted, these are just artefacts of translation of abbreviations. Japanese often abbreviates longer terms for convenience, so personal computer (パソナルコンプタ) becomes pasacon (パサコン). What has happened here is that railway collection (鉄道コレクション) becomes 鉄コレ and the machine translation can’t parse the abbreviation, reading 鉄 as “iron” which is the meaning of the character by itself. 

 

It is good to keep in mind that the Japanese sound represented in Latin alphabet as L or R actually lies in between those English sounds and is neither of them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
nah00

Don't even get started on what 'pantograph' sometimes gets translated to...

Share this post


Link to post
VentureForth
On 2/2/2019 at 5:11 AM, Tanuki said:

It is good to keep in mind that the Japanese sound represented in Latin alphabet as L or R actually lies in between those English sounds and is neither of them.

 

Way back when, I was taught as a kid that an "r" sound has your tongue in the back of your mouth and "L" puts your tongue right at the back of your teeth. Try saying "rail". Your tongue moved from the roof to your teeth. The Japanese "rla" or "ら" series actually put your tongue behind your top teeth where the roof of your mouth starts to turn up. Try saying "rail" this time with your tongue there and without moving it.

 

It ain't perfect, but it demonstrates how it is completely unique from Ls or Rs.

Edited by VentureForth

Share this post


Link to post
railsquid
On 2/2/2019 at 7:11 PM, Tanuki said:

As Chadbag, noted, these are just artefacts of translation of abbreviations. Japanese often abbreviates longer terms for convenience, so personal computer (パソナルコンプタ) becomes pasacon (パサコン).

 

In the interests of correctness: "パーソナルコンピュータ" and "パソコン" (pasokon).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Tanuki
11 hours ago, railsquid said:

 

In the interests of correctness: "パーソナルコンピュータ" and "パソコン" (pasokon).

 

 

My bad. It’s been a while...

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×