KATO Unitrack Viaduct questions

[chadbag]

 

Wince my wife is going to Japan in a couple weeks to see her mom as her mom gets ready for cancer treatment, I thought I'd have some Unitrack sent to my SIL so my wife can bring it back.  (Not having her go looking for anything in stores etc).

 

I have not messed around with the Viaduct stuff and am not sure what some of the track is based on the terminology.    Sorry, basic noob questions.  Looking at the KATO USA website and the Amazon Japan (in "English") website.

 

"20-545      381mm/414mm Radius 22.5º (15" - 16 3/8") CS Double Track Easement Curve Track Right and Left."    What does that mean -- "easement" curve track?  Is that to transition from straight level to the "super elevated" curved pieces?  

 

Probably more to come as I research this.

[katoftw]

Yup transition.

 

Kato USA website and amazon aren't very good. Better off browzing the jp website in english or japanese. (For track diagrams).

Edited December 10, 2018 by katoftw

[cteno4]

Chad,

 

yeah the viaduct is not as popular in the us so not as much info on it.

 

the double viaduct use to be all flat. A few years back they went to super elevated. So you have 45 degree super elevated sections and 22.5 degree transitions from flat to super elevated. So usually in a 180 you do

 

22.5 flat to super elevated 

45 super elevated 3x

22.5 super elevated to flat

 

so you need a left and right for each 180.

 

90 is 

 

22.5 flat to super elevated 

45 super elevated

22.5 super elevated to flat

 

jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, chadbag said:

 

Wince my wife is going to Japan in a couple weeks to see her mom as her mom gets ready for cancer treatment, I thought I'd have some Unitrack sent to my SIL so my wife can bring it back.  (Not having her go looking for anything in stores etc).

 

I have not messed around with the Viaduct stuff and am not sure what some of the track is based on the terminology.    Sorry, basic noob questions.  Looking at the KATO USA website and the Amazon Japan (in "English") website.

 

"20-545      381mm/414mm Radius 22.5º (15" - 16 3/8") CS Double Track Easement Curve Track Right and Left."    What does that mean -- "easement" curve track?  Is that to transition from straight level to the "super elevated" curved pieces?  

 

Probably more to come as I research this.

 

Yes, Without the easement you get a guaranteed derailment.

 

My two cents. Consider Tomix for superelevated double viaduct track. The lack of variety in this track makes it quite difficult to be creative with your track plan. Kato actually doesn't sell non super elevated  45 degree turns. They used to but discontinued them. They can be found occasionally on ebay for a premium. It's possible to tinker with the viaduct track and custom your own pieces. I've done that a few times but it's more complicated that it seems like it would be. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by gavino200

[chadbag]

Thanks. 

 

KATO has the same "easement" track with the non viaduct track and I am pretty sure I have some now that I think about it.  I did not realize what the shorter pieces were for and so when I set up I have not been using them.  I have had no problems (non viaduct) but have noticed that the superelevated track lifts the straight pieces up a bit to match the superelevation.  Now I know how to set them up correctly 🙂

 

For viaduct, I am more likely now to use KATO since I tend to set up and take down and make temporary layouts.  Eventually I'll go to a more permanent layout and will consider other options then.   We'll see if I spring for viaduct stuff now or wait until the summer when we all go.

 

[Yavianice]

KATO also sells a superelevated (not an easement) 22.5 degree curve, but only in the V12 set. It does not even have a product code.

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, chadbag said:

Thanks. 

 

KATO has the same "easement" track with the non viaduct track and I am pretty sure I have some now that I think about it.  I did not realize what the shorter pieces were for and so when I set up I have not been using them.  I have had no problems (non viaduct) but have noticed that the superelevated track lifts the straight pieces up a bit to match the superelevation.  Now I know how to set them up correctly 🙂

 

For viaduct, I am more likely now to use KATO since I tend to set up and take down and make temporary layouts.  Eventually I'll go to a more permanent layout and will consider other options then.   We'll see if I spring for viaduct stuff now or wait until the summer when we all go.

 

 

Interesting. I haven't actually seen Tomix superelevated viaduct track "in person". Is it less amenable to temporary track setup? 

 

It sounds like you have both viaduct and non-viaduct Kato double track. Are you planning an incline? I have one and I love how it looks but many trains can't handle it and most slow down a bit which doesn't look great. I'd advise against building in an incline. Next time I build, instead of an incline, I'm going to have different 'ground levels, so the non-viaduct track is on the high ground and the viaduct spans across a lower ground "valley". Just something to consider. 

 

As Yavianice said, the variety of Kato superelevated non-viaduct track is pretty decent. Kato sells different length and radius easments as well as the same length and radius curves in non-easment (flat) track for the non-viaduct double track.  It's the Kato superelevated viaduct track that is very limited. But bear in mind that the tightest radius Kato superelevated non-viaduct track are too tight to run Shinkansens and some steamers on. 

 

Do you have a rough draft track plan yet?

Edited December 10, 2018 by gavino200

[chadbag]

I don't currently have any viaduct track from anyone.  I was thinking about getting some when the wife goes over after Christmas, since track shipping costs tends to get large very fast.  I may wait to get some until the whole family goes in in July.  I already have a bunch of track for her to bring back anyway.  

 

From comments elsewhere, with the Tomix in-built track connectors (the big plastic part, not the metal part), they are not as amenable to constant putting together and taking apart due to being part of the roadbase / track and not a separate piece like KATO.

 

I don't have a track plan yet.  I am currently setting up temporary ones as I have time to play.  I am slowly making room to build a semi-permanent layout on an 8x4 (approx) frame with foam insulation board "table", but even then, I will probably be making lots of changes as I want to do new things.  I am going to use to learn all about DCC blocks, automation, etc. and to try various things so when we move in 2 years to our house we plan on building (with dedicated train room), I can make a more "permanent" layout with what I have learned.

 

ONce the 8x4 is setup, I'll start messing around with some layouts and start posting them.

 

I plan mostly to have completely elevated track for now, without incline.   Eventually in the house, on the more permanent layout, I'll have inclined track, but the incline will be gradual and long.  (The layout will be modular tables (not modules) and large and varied in overall shape and grow as needed 🙂   )

 

[gavino200]

Great. Make sure you don’t place any part of your incline on a curve.

[chadbag]

Yeah, no.  Probably a long 12' straight away in the back of the section where it will be 🙂    Eventually with viaduct curve to a straight viaduct place in the front with a station etc.  Then eventually another long straight gradual include behind.   That is the general idea I have in my mind.  We'll see what finally happens 🙂    Thanks for the warning though

 

 

[cteno4]

Gavin,

 

whats your experience been with inclune viaduct curves? A lot of train slow up?

 

jeff

[Yavianice]

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

As Yavianice said, the variety of Kato superelevated non-viaduct track is pretty decent.

 

Did I say that? I only said that the V12 set contains a viaduct curve that you can't buy separately. This piece does not exist in a non-viaduct version. I think you are just as stuck with viaduct curves (doubletrack) and non-viaduct (doubletrack) curves angle wise, if you don't own this special 22.5 superelevated piece. The non-viaduct does have different radii, but that's all.

 

And considering inclines, as mentioned in the incline thread, I personally do not have that many problems with slowing trains (and I have a 2% incline with curves). Though the limitation of KATO pillars did require me to make some pillars of my own to smoothen the incline completely and avoid slowdown and derailing issues. In that regard I find KATO very finicky and not "plug and play" friendly.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Yavianice

[gavino200]

5 hours ago, Yavianice said:

 

Did I say that?

 

 

Well no. I guess you didn't. You referred to a track segment  available in non-viaduct double track that isn't available in viaduct double track. For me, if the viaduct track was available in the same range a non viaduct track, I would consider the selection "decent" (but not very good). 

 

The different radii are do make a difference but it's really the non-existence of the 22.5 degree non non-transition (flat rail) curves that totally pissed me off. What I wanted to do was to slightly shift the course of an otherwise straight segment. ie straight track -> 22.5 degree curve -> straight track. If you want to do that you need to jerry- rig your own piece.

 

With regard to your incline - how much curve do you have on the incline? I might have a go at improving mine. Probably by cutting down some pillars to make a shallower incline. I have a full 225 degree turn in my incline. It really does make a big difference. My other incline is completely straight and isn't a problem. I can't really do anything about my curve without remaking my layout. Fortunately I'm moving this summer so I'll get a chance to do exactly that. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by gavino200