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katoftw

Japanese shops applying Australian import tax

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katoftw

This only applied to our Australian friends.  I got an email saying they will be collecting the GST at the point of sale from Juy 1.  So since they force the shipp options to be epacket, DHL or EMS for orders over 8000 yen.  GST is added to both the cost of the item and the cost of the shipping options.

 

So since the shipping options at AmiAmi can be 1200-1500 higher, just be careful with you calculations.  AS if is really a 1320-1650 increase after GST is applied.

 

This collection of GST by the Australia govt only applies to businesses with an income of 75,000 AUD or more, so I have asked our smaller suppliers if this collection applied to them.  IF not, they become much cheaper options than the bigger players.

Edited by katoftw
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Das Steinkopf
On 29 June 2018 at 8:03 AM, katoftw said:

This only applied to our Australian friends.  I got an email saying they will be collecting the GST at the point of sale from Juy 1.  So since they force the shipp options to be epacket, DHL or EMS for orders over 8000 yen.  GST is added to both the cost of the item and the cost of the shipping options.

 

So since the shipping options at AmiAmi can be 1200-1500 higher, just be careful with you calculations.  AS if is really a 1320-1650 increase after GST is applied.

 

This collection of GST by the Australia govt only applies to businesses with an income of 75,000 AUD or more, so I have asked our smaller suppliers if this collection applied to them.  IF not, they become much cheaper options than the bigger players.

 

 I got hit with my first installment of the Gerry Harvey tax the other day from them and I was far from impressed, my June preorder had been delayed due to a number of Greenmax detail parts and some Hogaraka Dou containers having their release dates rescheduled or just generally stuffed up. They decided to remove those items from the order on Tuesday and then sent me a payment request for the remaining items, the frustrating part is that all of the items that were avaialble had been so for at least two weeks and if the offending items had been removed earlier on I would not have had to pay the GST on that order. On top of that some of the items that were removed and then put aside have been now classed as a new order but are still marked for June release, this means I am going to get hit with additional shipping costs for items that should have been shipped together in the one order.

 

 I have used AmiAmi for at least 3 years now and I had found them to be prompt with their service and very professional with the way they were run, over the last few months however there seems to have been a sharp decline with orders being delayed on a regular basis and poor communication. I understand that production of items can be rescheduled by manufacturers for a variety of reasons and release dates can and do suffer due to that, but when orders are getting stuffed around consistently that's another issue, the rate it is going I am most likely to wait until the last few preorders I have with them are ready and take my business elsewhere.

Edited by Das Steinkopf
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katoftw

I contacted them and yes they are charging the Harvey tax. But they are also charging the 8% consumption tax also.

 

I queried them (AmiAmi) and they flatout lied about charging the JP consumption tax.  Clearly they do looking at their discount calculations.

 

MTP isn't charging the Harvey tax. So I think also to switch suppliers.  No idea if HS are collecting the Harvey tax, but I ordered something small to test.  And Dave hasn't returned my email from a week ago, so I do not know his stance on the issue.

Edited by katoftw

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Das Steinkopf
7 hours ago, katoftw said:

I contacted them and yes they are charging the Harvey tax. But they are also charging the 8% consumption tax also.

 

I queried them (AmiAmi) and they flatout lied about charging the JP consumption tax.  Clearly they do looking at their discount calculations.

 

MTP isn't charging the Harvey tax. So I think also to switch suppliers.  No idea if HS are collecting the Harvey tax, but I ordered something small to test.  And Dave hasn't returned my email from a week ago, so I do not know his stance on the issue.

 

 I spoke with Nariichi about it last year when I went to his store when I was in Tokyo, he basically indicated that he wasn’t interested in collecting it. With my orders I have tended to use AmiAmi for 65%, MTP 25%, Loco1 and other suppliers 10%, I dare say I will be switching the bulk of my orders to MTP in the future once I have cleared my backlog of preorders with AmiAmi.

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Khaul

A few thoughts about that:

 

-I think the prices of big brick and mortar model train shops in Japan are similar to AmiAmi. Unlike Hobby Search they offer a substantial discount on the manufacturers RPP. 

 

-I have been under the impression AmiAmi did not charge the Japanese GST to overseas buyers. Other than price, I like their fast and relatively affordable air mail (or whatever is called) option. My only problems with AmiAmi are their limited stock and the way they list things.

 

-It may be sensible for me to start looking to MPT and Loco1 although their stock is also limited. What worries my most is that orders may get stuck at Aussie customs so we'll have to go to some warehouse near the airport to pay the tax.

 

Pablo

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bill937ca
33 minutes ago, Khaul said:

-I have been under the impression AmiAmi did not charge the Japanese GST to overseas buyers.

 

Their system may not have the ability to charge GST import tax for Australia but not charge Japanese GST.  These things are easy for governments to implement but hard for merchants to manage. And I bet Australian officials aren't listening to issues from foreign merchants.

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bill937ca

Ami Ami is a brick and mortar store.

http://www.amiami.com/top/page/t/store.html

 

AmiAmi Akihabara Radio Kaikan Store

 

Large general store selling products of all genres

4F Akihabara Radio Kaikan
1-15-16 Soto Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-0021 JAPAN

Access:
0 minutes' walk from the Electric Town exit of JR Akihabara station

Business Hours: AM 10:00 - PM 8:00 JST
Business Day: 7 days a week

Items Sold:
Figures, Character goods, Gundam, Ghibli, Dolls, Military models, Car models, Tools, Trading cards

*Prices at our retail store are different from our internet shopping site.
*Questions regarding internet shopping cannot be answered by our retail store.
 

 

AmiAmi Akihabara Store 2nd

 

3F 4F, Super Bldg.
1-11-5 Soto Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 101-0021 JAPAN

Business Hours: AM11:00 - PM9:00 JST
Business Day: 7 days a week

Items Sold:
Figures, Character goods, Pre-owned items

*Prices at our retail store are different from our internet shopping site.
*Questions regarding internet shopping cannot be answered by our retail store.
 

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Das Steinkopf
2 hours ago, bill937ca said:

 

Their system may not have the ability to charge GST import tax for Australia but not charge Japanese GST.  These things are easy for governments to implement but hard for merchants to manage. And I bet Australian officials aren't listening to issues from foreign merchants.

 

The Australian government doesn’t give a rats arse about Australian consumers being hit with the Japanese GST as well as the Australian GST, they just want their slice of the pie regardless. Prior to the 1st of July 2018 GST was only applied to purchases over $1000, at that amount it was affecting less than 50% of consumers, now it hits everyone. The change to the GST threshold was pushed by a greedy business owner who complained that Australian Bricks and Mortar retailers were suffering and unable to compete against online retailers from overseas. The facts are that his company which has many outlets around the nation is well renowned for being one of the most expensive retailers in the country, he is also one of the richest men in the country with a fortune in excess of $1.5 Billion AUD. What pisses me off even more is the fact that he is a long term member of the Liberal Party and one of their biggest donors, he has used his political connections with the current government to implement tax policy which will be beneficial to his company.

Edited by Das Steinkopf
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katoftw

Whatever the issues.  Now that AmiAmi are collecting a combined 18% for two countries gst.  They are not appealing to purchase from.  Others not charging a combined 18% for two countries gst are now more appealing.

 

I have asked then to cancel my orders.  As I looked the other way then getting charged JP consumption tax as they offered such a high discount to offset it. Now with another 10% added from both the shipping and item costs.  Their high discount is eaten away.  Plus I don't like being lied to, per * gst not being charged.

 

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=RAIL-25416&page=top%2Fsearch%2Flist%3Finc_txt2%3D12%24s_cate2%3D9604%24s_preorderitem%3D1%24pagemax%3D40%24getcnt%3D0%24pagecnt%3D2

 

Example item has RRP 36,500 + tax, Ami Ami is discounting it 26%, so it should be 27,010 yen.

 

But they have it as 28,990 yen.  RRP of 36500 + 8% - 26% = 29,170 yen

 

OR note their list price 39420...  Which is 36,500 + 8%...

 

Everything points to them adding 8%...  But not for GST they say...

Edited by katoftw

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cteno4

I seem to remember that smaller shops that could not process the tourist exclusion for japan gst needed to pay the gst to the gov and then apply for a rebate at the end of the year. This means they are out the gst for up to a year if they don’t charge it.

 

jeff

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Khaul
6 hours ago, bill937ca said:

Ami Ami is a brick and mortar store.

http://www.amiami.com/top/page/t/store.html

 

AmiAmi Akihabara Radio Kaikan Store

 

Oh, good to know. Last time I was not impressed by the shops in Akihabara. I much preferred Joshin in Osaka.

 

Edited by Khaul

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Khaul

The "Quote" function does not seem to be working well.

 

Anyway, I have been always dissatisfied with those Harvey Norman shops Das Steinkopf is talking about. Their employees are next to no help. All they say is "I have one of those at home and is great".

 

On a more relevant note: the big hobby shop in the centre of Sydney, Hobbyco, is now stocking a lot of Japanese n-scale. They always had some Kato, but now they've got a lot of Tomix fine track, starter sets and trains. They even have Tomytec, Greenmax and, wait Sankei z-scale kits. The shop is pricey and I try to avoid buying much there, but well, if the online shops are 18% more expensive Hobbyco may even become an option. 

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katoftw

Just received an email from Hobby Search.  They currently do not have plans to collect the 10% AU GST.

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Das Steinkopf
8 hours ago, Khaul said:

Anyway, I have been always dissatisfied with those Harvey Norman shops Das Steinkopf is talking about. Their employees are next to no help. All they say is "I have one of those at home and is great".

 

Yep that pretty much sums up the level of service you get there, on top of the over inflated prices that he charges and then has the hide to moan that Australian retailers can't compete against overseas online stores, or more to the point he wants to gouge as much money out of Australian consumers and hates it when has serious competition that provide a better choice for customers.

 

8 hours ago, Khaul said:

On a more relevant note: the big hobby shop in the centre of Sydney, Hobbyco, is now stocking a lot of Japanese n-scale. They always had some Kato, but now they've got a lot of Tomix fine track, starter sets and trains. They even have Tomytec, Greenmax and, wait Sankei z-scale kits. The shop is pricey and I try to avoid buying much there, but well, if the online shops are 18% more expensive Hobbyco may even become an option. 

 

Hobbyco has recently acquired the rights to be the Australian distributor for Tomix, this was mainly because they wanted to get their hands on the Thomas the Tank Engine range due to Hornby's license of that range expiring, the Hornby versions were in OO Scale but given the massive push for apartment living in Sydney and smaller houses N Scale will become more appealing to customers. From what I can see they are winding down their Kato stock given that they now hold the distribution rights for Tomix, the Australian importer for Kato is a hobby store in Melbourne and I dare say Hobbyco has decided that it wants a higher profit margin than onselling Kato items.

 

If you are after Kato track in Sydney go to Woodpecker Model Railways out at Pendle Hill, I have been a customer of theirs for well over 25 years and they offer great service as they are a family run business now in its second generation of operation, the sons mainly run it these days. They mainly specialize in British OO and N scale, they also do some American N and HO, Australian HO and some narrow guage of various scales and types, their Kato track is a little bit more expensive than Kato's Japanese list prices but when you factor in postage costs and now GST it's not too bad, they also have a very comprehensive range of Woodland Scenics items.

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katoftw

Once I pointed out the calculations I did above, AmiAmi allowed the cancallation of all my orders without fuss.

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Das Steinkopf
1 hour ago, katoftw said:

Once I pointed out the calculations I did above, AmiAmi allowed the cancallation of all my orders without fuss.

 

Amazing that, I wonder if they have been beefing up their bottom line by charging overseas online orders with the 8% sales tax and not passing it on to the tax office due to the nature of the transaction, if so it's extremely disingenuous of them to do so and gives me further reason to not bother shopping with them anymore, oh well when their sales drop due to customers deserting them they will only have themselves to blame. 

Edited by Das Steinkopf

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cteno4

hobby search has done the same thing for a long time of quoting the retail price to be the Japanese full price which would be the Manufacturer SRP plus the 8% vat. They do this on the Japanese site as well of showing the SRP (and all prices) as “tax included”. Amazon.jp also includes the vat in the list price.

 

popondetta just shows the price you pay including tax, no list prices. Mtp and loco1hobby just shows SRP w.o tax included.

 

i never look at stated discounts they put on things at sites, the bottom line they say the price is, doesn’t matter if they are getting the vat back or not to you as if they didn’t get it back they would still have to mark it up according. They are not clearly stating they are collecting vat or not, just here is what you pay for it if you want it from us. The only think I see as slimy is just trying to inflate discounts by not just using the straight SRP. But again I look at it as just what’s the shipped price to me to evaluate best price.

 

Exports do cost them more for extra translation for websites, English speaking staff, customs paperwork, extra shipping service work, sturdier boxes most likely (plaza had said something about this when they used the flimsier boxes that they had used fine for shipping w,in japan), return hassles, increased risk of misunderstandings, etc. Even if they get the vat back part of it will go into paperwork and lost capital for the year until they get it back. So in the end I could see this going poof for them on exports. I’m pretty sure they need to pay the vat regardless and then just get it back on the exports at the end of the year. In the end it’s what they can make a business on and what they say is the shipped price to you and if you want that or not.

 

Pjeff

 

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katoftw

Not sure about the content of you post Jeff. But the last few sentences ring true.

 

AmiAmi have choosen an option the increased their costings to  Australian customers by 10% of both shipping and item cost combined.

 

I dont want that. I choose to go elsewhere.  As per last sentence.

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cteno4

Not sure what you are unsure about.

 

I was just commenting on the whole 8% japan gst and what many of the regular exporters do with listing it in srp or burying it in the price.. It varies how they show it or not in their calculations, but in the end I think all the shops need to pay the japan gst on all sales, but they can get back at the end of the year if they file the paper work and proof of export. It’s either built into their price (the dealers that show japan SRP w.o gst) or its added to the japan SRP to make the effective japan srp with tax included.

 

even if they get it back, a good hunk or all is lost to paperwork and such and the cost of doing export business. Really does not matter, just look at the final price you will pay for the item and shop that way. I’m sure shops that don’t add the gst to the srp adjust their price accordingly to cover it as they need to pony it up each month to the gov and then apply to get it back later.

 

with the new Australian gst of course will matter if that is applied or not. If it is then that money will got to Australian gov and not come back! Sounds like the larger shops are forced into it some how so not their fault. Sounds like there is some constriction point they can get them at with customs to force the issue. 

 

Bummer you guys guys are getting hit with the duty. I expect we may eventually see it here with our states sales tax as Supreme Court ruling just cleared the way for states to force collection when stuff shipped in from other states. I can see some eventually thinking of foreign sales like Australia is.

 

i wonder if hobby link japan will be forced to do this, they are a big export operation.

 

jeff

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Das Steinkopf
6 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Bummer you guys guys are getting hit with the duty. I expect we may eventually see it here with our states sales tax as Supreme Court ruling just cleared the way for states to force collection when stuff shipped in from other states. I can see some eventually thinking of foreign sales like Australia is.

 

i wonder if hobby link japan will be forced to do this, they are a big export operation.

 

jeff

 

 What really irks me is that I was under the assumption that online sales to foreign customers would not attract Japanese Sales Tax, I have purchased quite a bit of British OO Scale gear from the UK prior to the expansion of the GST, when I purchased items from Hattons for example it showed the list price including VAT and when I would go to the checkout the VAT would be removed, now it adds the 10% GST to it. As Ryan had stated before if Australian consumers are hit with Japanese Sales Tax of 8% then we should only be charged a further 2%, in other words the ATO is only collecting the difference between 10% GST and what other foreign Sales Tax the consumer would be liable for, as I mentioned before if I purchased items from the EU prior to the expansion I did not pay any tax at all.

 

 The system was supposed to be designed to provide a level playing field by putting a tax on items that previously attracted no tax at all, the reality is that it is being used as leverage by Australian businesses to keep on gouging customers as much as they like due to their competition being knobbled. Prior to online shopping becoming available Australian retailers pretty much charged whatever they pleased as they had no viable competition, when I first went to Japan I was shocked to see how cheap N Scale gear was there as it was basically half the price of what it was in Australian stores, even ordering from AmiAmi prior to the GST expansion I was buying stuff for 60% of what it would cost in Australian store including the cost of getting it shipped here by EMS. 

 

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cteno4

Das,

 

In looking at the new rules for Australia gst I don’t see it saying that the exporter only have to pay 10% total for your aus tax (ie if you paid 8% japan gst then they collect only 2% for the aus gst). ATO stuff just says charge and give us the 10% aus gst. I don’t see any mention of issues of any local taxes being applied effecting the aus gst collected.

 

Your not really being officially charged the Japanese tax. No one states that that I’ve seen. That’s totally separate thing from Australian gst. I think all shops in japan have to pay the japan sales tax (unless they have the in person thing set up with in person with passport and such) regardless if shipping for export or domestic. They have to wait and apply to get it back for exports, so it s a hassle and a loss on their part to deal with so I can see why they can’t and don’t want to just not charge an export surcharge. They will not get all the gst back on exports (they never will with the paperwork costs, holding funds for long time, etc). They never state they are charging you the japan gst, they are just calculating that into the cost of doing export business. In japan as I said different stores have the gst added to list price and others don’t. They all end up with a discount bottom line price you pay and that’s what to shop on. All the other stuff is just marketing or carry over form showing all prices including gst on their Domestic sites but they don’t say anything about japan sales tax on export sites.

 

Mtp, amiami, Hs, etc all have a calculated bottom line price they can sell for for export. An export sale is going to be more expensive form the business than a domestic one. Shops that show prices the same as their Japanese sites with the sales tax added are just putting that cost at 8%, which with all the export things is probably about right. 

 

The Australian gst is separate issue. It’s happening in a different way for the retailers. If big enough it appears they are forced to collect the 10% aus gst and turn it over to ATO, done, gone (plus some added cost on the store’s part to do accounting and paperwork involved). I do see it odd they are not jsut doing it at customs in Australia for commercial packages like most places with gst on imports do. It is protectionism some, others say leveling the playing field, others say collecting needed taxes due, etc, not getting into all the politics of all that.

 

its hard to do import business for niche stuff, especially when folks can these days order it from overseas so easily. Pre internet, importers were the only way to get stuff. The costs of wholesale stock are not super low on Japanese trains. Then there are all the import/export issues and costs and then will it sell with a very limited market in country. Return of stock is about impossible by the importer, too costly. Also making the right connections for good distributor is hard. Even shipping plays into it as cost to ship sal from japan is roughly the same as our current domestic parcel shipping in the us, so that makes buying direct even more inexpensive. The few econonomical importers of Japanese trains we have had in the us have come with folks with good Japanese connections that were personal and not something most shops can get. The last importer got to just a bit below the usual good shipped ems price and it came domestic shipping about as fast as ems. He had personal connections, no brick and mortar and very efficient operation and low margins. So to import at a cost at anything near buying directly from japan is really hard.

 

other countries are different with taxes. I think in uk they just need to show it was exported to not charge the vat and money never loops thru the gov. I’ve always had any brittish stuff have the vat waived from even the smallest shop, which leads me to believe it’s easy, but maybe it’s just General uk business policy to suck up the export losses. Also each business has different feelings on dealing with costs and hassles of export sales (almost always going to cost more to the export businesses). Use to be many us shops did not mind doing export sales, then the customs forms got nasty here along with getting packages dropped at the post. Around the same time the international shipping rates went way up which reduced business. So many shops decided for the fewer sales they were getting it was just not worth the hassle and costs for all the new paperwork. 

 

Sorry that you are having to deal with the new aus gst. Never fun. Hopefully using thensmaller shops will work out more economically for you.

 

jeff

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Das Steinkopf

Jeff I will make this short and sweet.

 

With MTP Nariichi's list prices are excluding tax, when I went to his store in April last year Nariichi and I filled out some forms which included my passport number as proof of purchase by a foreign visitor to get the tax exemption, just like I did when I went to a number of other stores such as Yodobashi.

 

If you go into stores such as Tam Tam and Popondetta the prices that are on the items are before tax, when you go to the cashier they ring up your items and then press a button that adds the 8% tax to the transaction, whilst if you go into Yodobashi they have the full price including tax on the item, that is one thing I learnt when shopping in Japan was to ask if the displayed prices included tax or not.

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cteno4

Yep I’ve done the same. The instore thing is different than mailing export. In store they can get the forms that you fill out with passport to waive the collection of Japanese gst. Not all stores choose to do this paperwork though. Like you I’ve see it both ways with tax and without on listed prices and learned to ask.

 

This does not happen with mail order, it’s collected on all mail order afaik. Last time I asked Nariichi San he said he had to pay the Japanese  and since it was not recoverable until the end of the year and he just had to build some of that into his price as he could not afford to not add anything onto orders and pay the 8% out of his pocket and wait until the end of the year to get it back so he had to work on a price that worked for him knowing he would get the 8% back later on the mail orders. 

 

Jeff

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Ochanomizu

Hello,

 

In order to collect and pay GST in Australia, a business must register with the ATO.  For that to proceed, they must have an ABN (Australian Business Number).  I have searched the ATO ABN Lookup site.  There is no "Oh-Ami" company registered.  Nor is there an "AmiAmi".  I have just sent AmiAmi a message requesting their ABN number .... I look forward to receiving the reply.

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Das Steinkopf
1 hour ago, Ochanomizu said:

Hello,

 

In order to collect and pay GST in Australia, a business must register with the ATO.  For that to proceed, they must have an ABN (Australian Business Number).  I have searched the ATO ABN Lookup site.  There is no "Oh-Ami" company registered.  Nor is there an "AmiAmi".  I have just sent AmiAmi a message requesting their ABN number .... I look forward to receiving the reply.

 

That’s correct, by law alll registered businesses must display their ABN number on their receipts, Paypal has an ABN number at the bottom of the receipt for payment to AmiAmi but AmiAmi hasn’t provided an ABN on their receipt for payment.

Edited by Das Steinkopf

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