Converting a Fleischmann DB BR101 (735509)

[gavino200]

Has anyone here done this conversion? I'm sure I could wire in a decoder, but it looks like the loco has been designed to do this easily. I don't want to "reinvent the wheel", when there may be an easier and better method out there.

 

There is a little 'decoder shaped' groove on the top of the body. There's also a small circuit board next to this. I wonder if it's a "dummy board" that fits over a european style decoder socket. 

It's the board with the yellow circuit. 

 

I've tried searching but haven't found anything. I can read German decently, but I'm probably not choosing the right search terms. Any pointers would be appreciated. 

 

Can anyone recommend a suitable decoder?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by gavino200

[chadbag]

That is where the decoder goes.  Pull the dummy board and put your decoder in.  I believe it is an NEM651 slot.  

 

I'll be using a DH05C or DH10C in mine.   Any NEM651 that fits should be OK.  

 

The above is true, but is limited to either really short ones or ones on ribbon cable you can put on top and feed the cable down.  I'll post pics once mine is done.

Edited April 28, 2018 by chadbag

[chadbag]

Are you sure that is the right Fleischmann product number?  My BR101 is 733507.   Mine looks the same as yours inside. My box actually has German and English instructions on the insert for putting in a (Fleischmann) DCC decoder but that side slot is the correct place.  Note that when looking at it with the train on its side, the slot to the right of the motor, pin 1 is on the left side closest to the motor.

 

So you need to be aware of  the size of the decoder.   You probably want one with wires or a ribbon cable so you can actually put the decoder on top and have the ribbon cable bend down the side.   Here is my DH05C I used.   (I actually moved the two wires on top and before I run it I will put a layer of captan tape on the locomotive frame where the decoder lays to avoid any shorts with the back of the decoder.)  I have not run this yet -- just installed it as a test -- but it should be GTG.  My shell fits back on top and locks with the decoder under the wires.

 

ETA:  I tried a DH10C first, directly in the slot, but it sticks way up.  I then went to the DH05C but it also sticks up so I went with what you see here.    I'll use the DH10C I snipped for this in a HobbyTrain locomotive

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by chadbag
finish post and add details and pic

[gavino200]

Thanks Chad. Yes, I wrote the wrong number. It's 7, not 9. And yes mine has instructions too. I didn't think of lifting the plastic tray to look for goodies underneath :)

[gavino200]

Just ordered a Fleischmann decoder. 

[chadbag]

14 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Just ordered a Fleischmann decoder. 

 

 

How much was it?

 

I'm basically trying to standardizer on D&H or at least RailCom compatible decoders.  I have a few Digitrax but will use D&H function decoders in cab cars so I will still get the RailCom ID...

 

You should be able to use any NEM651 that will fit or will fit on top with the ribbon cable like my D&H.

 

This topic of yours got me distracted from what I am supposed to be doing and I installed the DH05C in my BR101, and a DH10C in a HobbyTrain 182 (Taurus with MCRA private railway livery and Franz Josef on the side), and a DH10C in a Fleischmann BR182 (Taurus) and a DH14 in a Trix 1116 (1016 Taurus family) from ÖBB I got in a starter kit (which I bought just to get a cheap locomotive and 2 flat cars with containers since the flat cars and containers are like $40 each anyway).  I'll test run them all tonight.   

See what this forum does to distract people?

[gavino200]

It was pricey. Thirty pound sterling. Plus shipping. I figured any NEM651 decoder would work, but I like that the Fleischmann 'pigtail' is already exactly the right length.

 

 

[chadbag]

6 hours ago, gavino200 said:

It was pricey. Thirty pound sterling. Plus shipping. I figured any NEM651 decoder would work, but I like that the Fleischmann 'pigtail' is already exactly the right length.

 

 

 

ok.   That is pricey.   But should fit exactly.

 

Just a note for future reference:  The D&H decoders that are the NEM651 ones come with a ribbon cable attached, but at the point of attachment to the decoder PCB the outer ribbon clashing is stripped so if you cut it right where the cladding starts, the pins are the right length for inserting into any NEM651 socket.  If you need longer, you can cut the ribbon cable at any length, strip the ends, and insert that into your socket.

 

Then the only issue is the physical size of the decoder.  For the BR101 the D&H DH05C and DH10C are too long for direct insertion into the socket with the pins right at the decoder, though the PD05A with the NEM651 pins probably would fit.  That is why I left a little of the ribbon cable on and bent it over the top, as the chassis is cut out on that end right where the decoder would be -- I think Fleischmann did this so that you could put a decoder there with a wire or ribbon cable interface down to the socket.   The BR182 Fleischmann chassis is lower and has the NEM651 socket directly on top and the DH10C I had cut right at the decoder fit there without issue.

 

 

[chadbag]

Just FYI

 

eurailhobbies.com (BC Can/WA state) has this in stock (last one):

 

https://www.eurorailhobbies.com/product.asp?mn=5&ca=12&sc=N&stock=FL-685303

 

and can get this one:

 

https://www.eurorailhobbies.com/product.asp?mn=5&ca=12&sc=N&stock=FL-686101

 

 

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, chadbag said:

Just FYI

 

eurailhobbies.com (BC Can/WA state) has this in stock (last one):

 

https://www.eurorailhobbies.com/product.asp?mn=5&ca=12&sc=N&stock=FL-685303

 

and can get this one:

 

https://www.eurorailhobbies.com/product.asp?mn=5&ca=12&sc=N&stock=FL-686101

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I looked at those, but looking at the loco, I wan't sure they'd fit. It's hard to tell how much clearance there is between the metal and the bottom of the plastic shell. Also, I'm a bit tickled by the idea of a truly 'plug in' decoder that fits perfectly. The Kato EM13s come close but can be screwy sometimes.

 

I've never used a Fleischmann decoder before. Do you happen to know if they can be programmed without a special proprietary device?  

[chadbag]

1 minute ago, gavino200 said:

 

 

Yeah, I looked at those, but looking at the loco, I wan't sure they'd fit. It's hard to tell how much clearance there is between the metal and the bottom of the plastic shell. Also, I'm a bit tickled by the idea of a truly 'plug in' decoder that fits perfectly. The Kato EM13s come close but can be screwy sometimes.

 

I've never used a Fleischmann decoder before. Do you happen to know if they can be programmed without a special proprietary device?  

 

All the normal standard CV should be programmable with any standard control center.  If they do anything wonky, you may need something special.  Judging by the specs, I bet these are  made for Fleischmann by D&H or ESU or someone.

 

You'd have to look at the dimensions given and then measure from the socket to the top of the chassis.

 

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, chadbag said:

 

 

 

You'd have to look at the dimensions given and then measure from the socket to the top of the chassis.

 

 

I did. There's not enough room, unless there's space between the chassis and the shell. It's fine. I'm not in any hurry.

[chadbag]

What is the part number of the one Fleischmann recommends for this?

 

I like the Fleischmann ones that have the socket on top with lots of lengthwise room like the BR 182 (Taurus) I have.

[gavino200]

48 minutes ago, chadbag said:

What is the part number of the one Fleischmann recommends for this?

 

I like the Fleischmann ones that have the socket on top with lots of lengthwise room like the BR 182 (Taurus) I have.

 

This is it. They just stopped producing it though. There are others that would fit with a tiny bit of wire re-routing. Or you could just cut and solder the wires to the perfect length. But I bought the 'out of production' recommended one, largely for the novelty of experiencing a perfectly smooth decoder installation. We'll see how it goes. 

 

https://www.fleischmann.de/de/product/179331-0-0-1-4-00-501-004002/products.html

[chadbag]

8 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

This is it. They just stopped producing it though. There are others that would fit with a tiny bit of wire re-routing. Or you could just cut and solder the wires to the perfect length. But I bought the 'out of production' recommended one, largely for the novelty of experiencing a perfectly smooth decoder installation. We'll see how it goes. 

 

https://www.fleischmann.de/de/product/179331-0-0-1-4-00-501-004002/products.html

 

 

Interesting, so it is made to plug in and then wrap around the top of the locomotive chassis.

 

You know that red splotch on the main chip.  That is to obfuscate who is making it for them.  I tried to quickly look at all the main line European decoder makers but did not find one that looked like it.

 

If you run into this with another Fleischmann that has the same sort of side mounted decoder:  The D&H DH05C-1 with the ribbon cable will fit perfectly.  (The DH10C-1 might -- I'll have to measure).  It is made for the same sort of installation and you can cut the cable and strip it at any length you want.  That is what I did...   At least this one you ordered seems to be full featured, with Railcom etc.  

 

Let me know how it works when you get it.

 

All my Hobbytrain, my BR182 Fleischmann, and the Trix 1116 were all easy peasy no problem installations :)

[gavino200]

15 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

 

Interesting, so it is made to plug in and then wrap around the top of the locomotive chassis.

 

You know that red splotch on the main chip.  That is to obfuscate who is making it for them.  I tried to quickly look at all the main line European decoder makers but did not find one that looked like it.

 

If you run into this with another Fleischmann that has the same sort of side mounted decoder:  The D&H DH05C-1 with the ribbon cable will fit perfectly.  (The DH10C-1 might -- I'll have to measure).  It is made for the same sort of installation and you can cut the cable and strip it at any length you want.  That is what I did...   At least this one you ordered seems to be full featured, with Railcom etc.  

 

Let me know how it works when you get it.

 

All my Hobbytrain, my BR182 Fleischmann, and the Trix 1116 were all easy peasy no problem installations :)

 

Yes. There's a recess on top of the chassis for the decoder. I'm guessing that's where they put the speaker on the audio model. It looks like they've made a little triangular shaped recess for the wire harness too.

 

I'm curious. What's your attachment to the D&H decoders? I use their O5C, for difficult installations in Japanese locos. Otherwise, I don't see anything special about them. Have you found them to have any advantages?

Edited May 1, 2018 by gavino200

[chadbag]

23 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

Yes. There's a recess on top of the chassis for the decoder. I'm guessing that's where they put the speaker on the audio model. It looks like they've made a little triangular shaped recess for the wire harness too.

 

I'm curious. What's your attachment to the D&H decoders? I use their O5C, for difficult installations in Japanese locos. Otherwise, I don't see anything special about them. Have you found them to have any advantages?

 

You mean the PD05A -- the really small one?  I think you followed the Spaniard's tutorial and put one in your EF210, right?  (I plan on doing the same thing)

 

They allow easy addition of sound later (SUSI), they are all relatively small (thin or flat), and if I standardize on one brand, it makes it easier to take advantage of their special capabilities as I don't have to learn the ins and outs of 10 different brands.

 

Having said that, I have a few Digitrax decoders which I will use as well as the KATO EM13 type, and I have one ZIMO I bought to try, and 1 ESU.  Everything else is D&H.  I also bought their programmer (actually their Future Command Center as the programmer was out of stock and their F.C.C. can function as a programmer) so it saves having to buy special HW for 10 different brands :)

 

I have an assortment of PD05A, DH05C, DH10C, and a DH14 for Minitrix locomotive, and a bunch of their function decoders (FH05) for use with cab cars or whatever.  And I bought 1 of their sound decoders to add to a function decoder and add sound, as an experiment, to a train (car).

 

I've attached 2 photos of the DH05C on the BR101.  Your decoder will fit in the same way, folding over the top.  It should work out nicely.  I do see that cutout in the frame that looks like you could put a nice little sugar cube speaker and sound decoder in or something.  Maybe that is what I will use as my experiment with sound!

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by chadbag

[gavino200]

17 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

You mean the PD05A -- the really small one?  I think you followed the Spaniard's tutorial and put one in your EF210, right?  (I plan on doing the same thing)

 

They allow easy addition of sound later (SUSI), they are all relatively small (thin or flat), and if I standardize on one brand, it makes it easier to take advantage of their special capabilities as I don't have to learn the ins and outs of 10 different brands.

 

Having said that, I have a few Digitrax decoders which I will use as well as the KATO EM13 type, and I have one ZIMO I bought to try, and 1 ESU.  Everything else is D&H.  I also bought their programmer (actually their Future Command Center as the programmer was out of stock and their F.C.C. can function as a programmer) so it saves having to buy special HW for 10 different brands :)

 

I have an assortment of PD05A, DH05C, DH10C, and a DH14 for Minitrix locomotive, and a bunch of their function decoders (FH05) for use with cab cars or whatever.  And I bought 1 of their sound decoders to add to a function decoder and add sound, as an experiment, to a train (car).

 

I've attached 2 photos of the DH05C on the BR101.  Your decoder will fit in the same way, folding over the top.  It should work out nicely.  I do see that cutout in the frame that looks like you could put a nice little sugar cube speaker and sound decoder in or something.  Maybe that is what I will use as my experiment with sound!

 

 

 

 

Makes sense. I thought about doing something similar with ESU. Was thinking of getting the Lokprogrammer. I changed my mind when they lost the 'worlds smallest decoder' title. I don't really want to start a programming hardware collection, so I generally stick with decoders that are JMRI friendly, unless I need a tiny decoder.

 

I had a BR 101 demo'd to me a while back. It's impressive. Loud, authentic, etc. Very tempting. But I think the PITA to fun ratio just doesn't justify it, for me. I don't have a ton of time for the trains these days. I need to cut down on time spent with electronic tinkering so I can get some layout modelling done.

 

Nice. So there is enough room between the shell and chassis for the decoder. Good to know. 

[chadbag]

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

 

Makes sense. I thought about doing something similar with ESU. Was thinking of getting the Lokprogrammer. I changed my mind when they lost the 'worlds smallest decoder' title. I don't really want to start a programming hardware collection, so I generally stick with decoders that are JMRI friendly, unless I need a tiny decoder.

 

I had a BR 101 demo'd to me a while back. It's impressive. Loud, authentic, etc. Very tempting. But I think the PITA to fun ratio just doesn't justify it, for me. I don't have a ton of time for the trains these days. I need to cut down on time spent with electronic tinkering so I can get some layout modelling done.

 

Nice. So there is enough room between the shell and chassis for the decoder. Good to know. 

 

LOL.  I think I'd rather do electronics tinkering than pro level modeling :)   Though I do respect the pro level modelers and I will do my best to be anal about my layout when I get the one started in the new house when we move :)

 

On the BR101 -- that little shelf you see above the socket was made for the decoder I think.   If you had one of those other decoders with the longer wiring you could probably place it in the big square cutout forward (closer to the nose) of the chassis next to where that shelf is and where I may try and stuck the sound stuff...

 

Now I just need to get an appropriate set of IC cars for my BR101.  I have several Arnold but not a cab driving car though there is a Trix 3 car set with cab that I found that will probably work, and Euro Rail Hobbies claims they can still order the Fleischmann in their dealer portal...

[chadbag]

So I test ran the BR101 with the decoder.   The motor part ran just fine.  It ran under address 3, and then I set a new address (1010) and it ran fine.  But it has a light problem.  When I first put it on a DCC powered track (NCE PowerCab, which was set to a different address from another locomotive I had tested), without the shell on, the LED on one end lit up (like a DC would) and under no circumstances would the lighting change no matter what DCC commands or address was used, though the motor worked fine under DCC and the locomotive would go forwards and back, and accelerate and decelerate under DCC command.   

 

I have not had time to debug it yet.   First thing is to unplug the decoder and plug it back in, then switch it back to DC mode, and then swap the decoder for another one that has been tested to work (in another Fleischmann, a BR182 -- both decoders are D&H).   We'll eventually get this figured out.

[gavino200]

40 minutes ago, chadbag said:

So I test ran the BR101 with the decoder.   The motor part ran just fine.  It ran under address 3, and then I set a new address (1010) and it ran fine.  But it has a light problem.  When I first put it on a DCC powered track (NCE PowerCab, which was set to a different address from another locomotive I had tested), without the shell on, the LED on one end lit up (like a DC would) and under no circumstances would the lighting change no matter what DCC commands or address was used, though the motor worked fine under DCC and the locomotive would go forwards and back, and accelerate and decelerate under DCC command.   

 

I have not had time to debug it yet.   First thing is to unplug the decoder and plug it back in, then switch it back to DC mode, and then swap the decoder for another one that has been tested to work (in another Fleischmann, a BR182 -- both decoders are D&H).   We'll eventually get this figured out.

 

Interesting. I suspect a Fleischmann programming unit might be necessary. I had trouble trying to program the Fleischmann function decoder in my IC Steuerwagen. It looks (on JMRI) like everything is working. And the lights flash on/off while it's being programmed. But it doesn't respond to the new address. 

 

At least, in the worst case,  the loco and Steuerwagen with both be on the same address - 03.

 

Let me know if you work this out. I may write or call Fleischmann about the issue. I'll probably ask my local train guy first.

[chadbag]

In my case, with the D&H decoders, I think it is either faulty wiring, or a bad decoder.  The Fleischmann BR 182 with a D&H decoder worked great.  With the BR101 I had no problem changing the decoder address.  Just the lights were not responsive.

 

With your Steuerwagen -- Do you have a DCC hardware throttle (NCE or something) that you can use to program things (at least change addresses and standard CVs)?  You could try that with it.

 

I found a Trix IC steuerwagen (3 car set) on eBay that also has an included decoder for the lights.   Have not gotten it yet.  My IC will have a Fleischmann BR101, Arnold coaches, and some Trix coaches and Steuerwagen :)   I couldn't find anything remotely reasonably priced from Fleischmann online or on eBay and Fleischmann is sold out.

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, chadbag said:

In my case, with the D&H decoders, I think it is either faulty wiring, or a bad decoder.  The Fleischmann BR 182 with a D&H decoder worked great.  With the BR101 I had no problem changing the decoder address.  Just the lights were not responsive.

 

With your Steuerwagen -- Do you have a DCC hardware throttle (NCE or something) that you can use to program things (at least change addresses and standard CVs)?  You could try that with it.

 

I found a Trix IC steuerwagen (3 car set) on eBay that also has an included decoder for the lights.   Have not gotten it yet.  My IC will have a Fleischmann BR101, Arnold coaches, and some Trix coaches and Steuerwagen :)   I couldn't find anything remotely reasonably priced from Fleischmann online or on eBay and Fleischmann is sold out.

 

Yeah, I'll try that when I get round to it. 

 

It's a pity about the Fleischmann IC Steuerwagen. There were a ton of them on the market earlier in the year. They dried up all of a sudden in March. I was lucky to get one at retail price. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by gavino200

[chadbag]

So to my headlight problem on the BR101.   I swapped the decoder between the BR101 and the BR182 (both Fleischmann).   The problem stayed with the BR101.    One light was on (rear) and it did not matter which address.  Both decoders functioned correctly in the BR182, including headlight function.  (Both are D&H -- 1 is a DH05C-1 and one is a DH10C-1).   I then converted the BR101 back to DC with the little board that is in the NEM651 slot when you get it.   When I did that, the light functioned according to the direction that it was going on DC.  So under DC it seems to be working.   Besides a bunch more D&H decoders,  I have one other NEM651 decoder (not just bare wires but the 6 pins) -- en ESU LokPilot 4 or something like that.  I will try that, and then if it still has the same symptoms, which I suspect it will, I will contact Fleischmann and see what they say.

 

Quick question:  Your BR101 only has white lights, right?  No red in the rear?  I did not see any when I examining but it is kind of hard to tell with the small SMD LEDs what all is what.

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, chadbag said:

So to my headlight problem on the BR101.   I swapped the decoder between the BR101 and the BR182 (both Fleischmann).   The problem stayed with the BR101.    One light was on (rear) and it did not matter which address.  Both decoders functioned correctly in the BR182, including headlight function.  (Both are D&H -- 1 is a DH05C-1 and one is a DH10C-1).   I then converted the BR101 back to DC with the little board that is in the NEM651 slot when you get it.   When I did that, the light functioned according to the direction that it was going on DC.  So under DC it seems to be working.   Besides a bunch more D&H decoders,  I have one other NEM651 decoder (not just bare wires but the 6 pins) -- en ESU LokPilot 4 or something like that.  I will try that, and then if it still has the same symptoms, which I suspect it will, I will contact Fleischmann and see what they say.

 

Quick question:  Your BR101 only has white lights, right?  No red in the rear?  I did not see any when I examining but it is kind of hard to tell with the small SMD LEDs what all is what.

 

No idea. I haven't tested it yet. I'll let you know when the decoder arrives.