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gavino200
1 minute ago, cteno4 said:

Tomix needs the cl circuit as well.

 

CL circuit? Is that an extra part, not included in the 3 car set?

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cteno4

It’s powered by the constant lighting power of tomix power supplies I believe.

 

jeff

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gavino200

From Sumida Crossing 😞

 

"Tomix’s “CL” units are designed to light based on high-frequency AC superimposed on a normal DC track by a “Constant Lighting” power pack. It’s probably not a good idea to use these with DCC"

 

- Ken from Summida Crossing

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/ModelTrains/ModelTrainDCC/OtherInteriorLights/

 

https://raicho.home.xs4all.nl/model/control/tomixctl/tmx5502.htm

Edited by gavino200

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gavino200

This sounds like a case for @kvp

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cteno4

Yes you would need to convert dcc to cl I think for the tomix camera as I think it runs on the cl power not the dc.

 

jeff

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kvp
48 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Yep the tomix is cheaper now use to be more expensive. Tomix needs the cl circuit as well.

That means it will happily run from DCC as long as it's not more than 14V (12V..14V). You'll have to DCC the motor car and the headlights though.

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kvp
18 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Yes you would need to convert dcc to cl I think for the tomix camera as I think it runs on the cl power not the dc.

CL power is just high frequency PWM without polarity changes. DCC is high frequency PWM with polarity changes at a fixed 50% rate. All CL powered accessories that is direction independent (vacuum car, internal lights and the camera car) could run from DCC as well as from CL without a decoder.

 

Motor cars just ignore CL so need a decoder for DCC and head/tail lights would turn on in both direction under DCC so also need a decoder.

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gavino200

The Bat signal worked again! 🙂

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cteno4
46 minutes ago, kvp said:

CL power is just high frequency PWM without polarity changes. DCC is high frequency PWM with polarity changes at a fixed 50% rate. All CL powered accessories that is direction independent (vacuum car, internal lights and the camera car) could run from DCC as well as from CL without a decoder.

 

Motor cars just ignore CL so need a decoder for DCC and head/tail lights would turn on in both direction under DCC so also need a decoder.

 

Cool did not know they were close enough to run the cl on dcc power for the camera.

 

jeff

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gavino200
7 hours ago, kvp said:

CL power is just high frequency PWM without polarity changes. DCC is high frequency PWM with polarity changes at a fixed 50% rate. All CL powered accessories that is direction independent (vacuum car, internal lights and the camera car) could run from DCC as well as from CL without a decoder.

 

Motor cars just ignore CL so need a decoder for DCC and head/tail lights would turn on in both direction under DCC so also need a decoder.

 

Thanks kvp. I never could have worked that out.

 

So CL can harm decoders. But devices designed to run on CL can run fine on DCC.

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kvp
2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

Thanks kvp. I never could have worked that out.

 

So CL can harm decoders. But devices designed to run on CL can run fine on DCC.

Yes, as long as the DCC voltage is set to the N scale standard 14V. The diode bridge in them just smooths it out to around 12.6V DC.

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cteno4

Doh! That makes total sense now that I think about it! 

 

Jeff. 

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gavino200

So, I've decided to buy the Tomix camera system. The remaining questions are, when to buy and what constitutes a full train for this? 

 

First timing. I try to only do one project at a time. I'm finishing up a project and have one that's about to begin. This camera train, I think, constitutes a project, more than a simple purchase. Decoders, then futzing with the system to get it to work. Probably a time sink until I get it to work. Also, I've been spending a fair bit lately. I like to space out purchases, so keep my wife in her usual state of surprising support of this hobby.

 

I often research and even shop, well ahead of when I'm ready to buy or do. But....I've learned that when it comes to trains, you sort of have to buy immediately or they disappear. This Tomix camera is sort of a hybrid beast. Is it a constant item that will remain on sale for at least many months? Or like a regular train is it about to go poof?

Also, if Tomix are going to make this a constant seller, will the corresponding train sets that go with it be an exception  to the buy now rule? Or will they too go poof?

 

Second question, The following are available on HS. Is this a 10 car train with two double decker cars?

 

3 car set with camera

 https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10429157

 

5 car add-on set

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10205574

 

2 car double decker set

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10205575

 

I'm assuming this is a replacement motor, and that the 3 car camera set actually comes with a motor.

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10465885

 

Altogether it's a decent whack of dough! It would be better to get it in 'under the radar' piece by piece if possible.

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JR 500系

Hi Gavin ~

 

Good choice! I have the camera car, but the problem is i'm having trouble always trying to charge up the motor without it running away! 

 

So having said that, the 3-car camera set does have a motor car, and that link you posted is an additional replacement motor. (I have that on standby too). It seems to use a different motor than the regular E233s though, which I don't know why...

 

That said, interior lighting probably cant be fitted into the camera car, as there is one really big electric part that runs all the way over the roof... other than the camera car, all other cars can be fitted with interior lighting... 

 

Yes like Tomix recommended, it is a 10-car set with the 2 double deckers, using the links you provided. If you find it is too long or too costly, you can also turn it into a 5-car add-on set without the double deckers ~ (I actually used this set from Kato, and needed to see how I can change the couplers) which in a way is also prototypical since E233-3000s also ran as a 5-car consist ~

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gavino200
7 hours ago, JR 500系 said:

 the problem is i'm having trouble always trying to charge up the motor without it running away! 

 

You have to stop the train to charge the camera? I thought it just ran on track power.

 

7 hours ago, JR 500系 said:

 

(I actually used this set from Kato, and needed to see how I can change the couplers) which in a way is also prototypical since E233-3000s also ran as a 5-car consist ~

 

That's a great idea. Mixing Tomix and Kato cars would open up a lot more possibilities.

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kvp
1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

You have to stop the train to charge the camera? I thought it just ran on track power.

 

If you don't have a DCC system or a Tomix - CL capable throttle or the new Kato - CL (DX) throttle, then you have to keep the DC track voltage at or above 7 volts to keep the camera car charged. This means never going slower than 60% of the fly off the tracks level of full throttle. It's a hack that could be used by people, who doesn't have the proper throttle to operate the camera car. If you go fast enough and never stop, the linear analog voltage is high enough to charge the camera battery. Getting any of the proper throttles solves this problem and the car gets trickle charged, even if the train is standing still (just make sure the CL lighting is active on the track, so if you use fully power routing Tomix turnouts, park the train on a track that has a separate CL throttle just for charging).

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gavino200

Just ordered the Tomix camera, plus the Tomix 5 and 2 car sets. It'll be a birthday present from my wife. Need to start researching what decoders to buy now.

 

 

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kvp
3 hours ago, gavino200 said:

Just ordered the Tomix camera, plus the Tomix 5 and 2 car sets. It'll be a birthday present from my wife. Need to start researching what decoders to buy now.

Two cab car decoders and one motor car decoder. The camera circuit board sits in place of the internal lights and doesn't need any decoder as long as your DCC voltage is set to N scale (14V).

 

For brands i would say Digitrax (maker of Kato decoders) or Lenz (they have some bipolar decoders so you don't have to modify the headlights).

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gavino200

What would be the minimum computer specs that I would need to use the Tomix camera train optimally?

 

I've been using an old laptop as a layout computer, but it's become ridiculously slow. So I'm going to get a new layout computer. I don't use anything very fancy for the layout so a very basic computer would be fine for most things. JMRI, Anyrail, other proprietary DCC programmers etc. This video system is likely to be the most computer intensive application I'll have.

 

Any basic minimum specs I should look for?

 

(I'll be receiving the Tomix camera train this weekend - a birthday present. I can't wait!)

Edited by gavino200

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Gryphr

According to Tomix' website you will need a Smartphone or Tablet (or any Android/iOS device with WiFi) to run this/their App.
If they have a computer program for this, It should pretty much run on any Computer that can run a modern Operating System. If not, you could try an Emulator like Bluestacks to run the Android app on your computer, although this'll need a bit more power (but again, I think any computer of the last few years should be able to run it).

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kvp
2 hours ago, Gryphr said:

According to Tomix' website you will need a Smartphone or Tablet (or any Android/iOS device with WiFi) to run this/their App.
If they have a computer program for this, It should pretty much run on any Computer that can run a modern Operating System. If not, you could try an Emulator like Bluestacks to run the Android app on your computer, although this'll need a bit more power (but again, I think any computer of the last few years should be able to run it).

The device must be able to connect to and download from either the Apple or the Google application stores. The OS requirements are (from HS):

Quote

Smartphones, tablet terminals, etc. with iOS 9.2 or higher, Android 4.4.2 or higher are required.

The Google play store link for the application:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.tomytec.tomixcamera

 

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gavino200
4 hours ago, kvp said:

The device must be able to connect to and download from either the Apple or the Google application stores. The OS requirements are (from HS):

The Google play store link for the application:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.tomytec.tomixcamera

 

 

Thanks kv. I had just assumed it was for use with a computer. I can use my phone, I guess, if I have to. But I'll probably install one of those programs that allow you to run Android apps on Windows 10. I thing a larger screen would be nice. I ordered a cheap pc laptop with a decent amount of RAM, a good chip, and solid state drive, for the layout.

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kvp
39 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Thanks kv. I had just assumed it was for use with a computer. I can use my phone, I guess, if I have to. But I'll probably install one of those programs that allow you to run Android apps on Windows 10. I thing a larger screen would be nice. I ordered a cheap pc laptop with a decent amount of RAM, a good chip, and solid state drive, for the layout.

One more thing to think about. The camera car is the wifi hotspot, so on a normal mobile phone, you can either have inetnet access or use the camera app. In theory there is a possibility to make a proxy application that could capture the video through the wifi connection and send it as a webcam through an ethernet port (or another wifi card), but this would require quite a lot of reverse engineering. (on the other hand, making a fully pc based client application would also enable the video to be streamed online or shown on a really big screen and even integration into a pc based driving stand)

 

ps: The required equipment for trying a bit of reverse engineering is a good pc with wifi and ethernet, an android emulator environment with working google play store access and a good network packet capture software that could tap into the traffic between the emulator and the camera car (like wireshark).

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gavino200

I got the camera train running today. Everything worked perfectly as predicted by kvp (thanks!). It's a ton of fun. I love it. Thanks everyone for chiming in with advice. 

 

I got two double decker cars to got with it which are very nice. Unfortunately, I got the wrong 5 car set as well. I got Tomix basic set 92463 by mistake, instead of add-on Tomix 92464. So if I can't exchange them I'll have to sell the basic and order the add-on. 

 

If anyone is on the fence about getting the camera train, I thoroughly recommend it. 

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cteno4

What frame rate and resolution will it do?

 

jeff

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