Jump to content
Japanese Modelling & Japan Rail Enthusiasts Forum

Recommended Posts

Rolling stock performance on Unitram (especially through turnouts) seems like a good discussion topic to start (or restart) on jnsforum. I have started looking into this in depth to better understand the tradeoffs in completing my large Japanese Unitram (plus elevated heavy rail and subway) layout.

 

I have a new video of my small n-gauge model tram test layout. Focus is on a complex crossing with Kato Unitram turnouts and how well various articulated trams run on it. I will do more like this with vintage trams and loco-hauled street-running freight. Please enjoy, comment, and share on YouTube as well as here!

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don"t think running trams into each other is such  a good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't picture any tram having a problem on Unitram turnouts, unless it involves picking the point. The radius is pretty large for tramways.

 

Rich K.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, bill937ca said:

I really don"t think running trams into each other is such  a good idea.

I can believe how the cops just sat there and watch collision without reporting it. I think the other collisions could have been avoided.

The series of 9.0 earth quakes and how well the infrastructure held up was impressive to me. One would think people would be out on the streets but then again

the giant kept meddling with the trams most likely scared them inside.

 

if you ask me. The NTSB and Cal Poly should be notified this was pretty serious but then no one pays attention to me. Just-fully so.

Inobu

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, onetruescale said:

Rolling stock performance on Unitram (especially through turnouts) seems like a good discussion topic to start (or restart) on jnsforum. I have started looking into this in depth to better

Did not see that you were a new to the forum. Your tram layout is well advanced and I assumed you were an old timer to the forum. Anyway

Welcome.

 

Inobu

 

Cal Poly and Cal Tech only means something to some of us.

Edited by inobu
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, inobu said:

Did not see that you were a new to the forum. Your tram layout is well advanced and I assumed you were an old timer to the forum. Anyway

Welcome.

 

Inobu

 

Cal Poly and Cal Tech only means something to some of us.

Thanks inobu!  I have been lurking for maybe 10yrs, but only joined 3mo ago when I mad my first video. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, bill937ca said:

I really don"t think running trams into each other is such  a good idea.

 

Yes, my second model train crossing since Gomez Adams was on TV freaked me out at first trying to fend off the constant Portram crashes.  After about 1000 push bumps and side crashes with no evidence of lost parts or scratched paint, I just stopped worrying. Kinetic energy causing damage is proportional to the square of velocity and I am only running 35 to 70 scale km/hr. N Shinkansen speeds or even HO tram speeds would be an issue. 

 

Fortunately the collision damage non-issue allows me to concentrate on video shooting and tram herding that concentrates video action and minimizes tedious editing. If I had any interest in electronics I guess I could automate the traffic, but I just don’t. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, brill27mcb said:

I can't picture any tram having a problem on Unitram turnouts, unless it involves picking the point. The radius is pretty large for tramways.

 

Rich K.

Oh, please watch my video. You are right the R180 radius is rarely an issue for trams designed for R117 or less. The issue in my intersection is that in a ~283mm long torture section in joined turnout curves, trams must successively pass through;

diverging points

frog

30deg crossing

30deg crossing

frog

converging points

giving plenty of opportunities for power loss, derails, and shorts for a variety of wheel arrangements. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems the deha200 had the most problems. Is it because the mech is stressed in the curves or just the light weight or bad pickups? As far as i know the center wheel is fixed to one of the bodies instead of being spring loaded than on the prototype. This could in theory create the same effect as a long 2 axle car, with the other 'single axle' being at center of the power bogie.

 

I'm surprised that the Kato protram derails on the Kato tram plates as they were designed to be used together. What could be the reason? (i only have a tomytec portram)

 

Imho the isolations are only a problem if their geometry (pattern) happens to be in a way that all pickup wheels/bogies could be above a plastic section. For those trams that have enough wheels with pickups and the bogies are spaced far enough to always provide at least one active pickup point on each rail, then they won't have a problem. Imho the only really problematic ones are the 2 axle single motor cars, where the rigid construction usually allows only 3 wheels to be firmly on the track and if the single wheel side rolls over a plastic part, then it looses power and if the inertia is not enough, the tram will stall. (usual solution is to wire the trailer for pickup or use two motors) Geometrically speaking, the two frogs are way more dangerous than the crossings as the crossing angle is high enough to be safe against derailments.

 

ps: In the future, please try to stop trams from colliding... (they just unnecessarily get sratched up and/or derail)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, kvp said:

It seems the deha200 had the most problems. Is it because the mech is stressed in the curves or just the light weight or bad pickups? As far as i know the center wheel is fixed to one of the bodies instead of being spring loaded than on the prototype. This could in theory create the same effect as a long 2 axle car, with the other 'single axle' being at center of the power bogie.

 

I'm surprised that the Kato protram derails on the Kato tram plates as they were designed to be used together. What could be the reason? (i only have a tomytec portram)

 

Imho the isolations are only a problem if their geometry (pattern) happens to be in a way that all pickup wheels/bogies could be above a plastic section. For those trams that have enough wheels with pickups and the bogies are spaced far enough to always provide at least one active pickup point on each rail, then they won't have a problem. Imho the only really problematic ones are the 2 axle single motor cars, where the rigid construction usually allows only 3 wheels to be firmly on the track and if the single wheel side rolls over a plastic part, then it looses power and if the inertia is not enough, the tram will stall. (usual solution is to wire the trailer for pickup or use two motors) Geometrically speaking, the two frogs are way more dangerous than the crossings as the crossing angle is high enough to be safe against derailments.

 

ps: In the future, please try to stop trams from colliding... (they just unnecessarily get sratched up and/or derail)

 

Thanks kvp! This is exactly the kind of detailed insight I am trying to collect and experiment with. The deha200 B-1-B is an oddball I threw in just because it is different and I had never run it with my reliable B-2-B deha300. It is heavier than a portram. Pickups are probably good because almost all stalls seem to be from derails . The B-1+B? model construction you describe might explain why I didn’t see many derails previously. I probably was running it the other direction! I will explore this!

 

I have 11 portrams and most run great on Kato simple street track. The offscreen derails were puzzling, but I was happy to catch it rerailing itself. The turnout to lower left of screen has weak point return springs, so may be the cause.  I will be doing a special video just on Kato portrams. 

 

Regarding the plastic turnout isolations, I agree with your imho. Another supporting experience data point is that the Kato street track quad 90deg crossing almost never causes a stall. However some of my >2 axle trams and locos consistently stall on either of my opposed turnout “torture” sections straddling two ~30deg turnout crossovers when slower than 62mm/s (scale 36km/hr or 22mph). At faster speeds, the Kato portram and Arnold Duewag each hesitate there once without stalling in this video. Spectrum Peter Witt trams (another future video) seem to have the perfect axle spacing to fail this “torture”, but their flywheel can save them if faster than 93-124mm/s.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the video feedback so far on this teaser, everyone! Sorry the numerous tram crashes has made my video such a cringeworthy “demolition derby”.  Even though I have found such slow crashes to be harmless, I should have known better than to put this before a tram-loving audience!

 

Future videos will be less chaotic with trams or locos that can run at more similar speeds.  It will be easier to mitigate collisions.  I do have to run several at once though, to avoid a lot of dead time video editing.

Edited by onetruescale
grammar
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Do you have any other Modemo trams? The reason I ask is that one of mine (I can't remember the model at the moment but will dig it out) has problems on the Kato Unitram track - it runs fine on ordinary unitrack but as soon as it gets onto unitram it stutters..., its almost as if the flanges on the wheels are too big and it grounds itself, lifting the wheels slightly off the track so cutting contact. Anyway, if you have any I'd like to see your results.

 

By the way I've just got the Tomytec Berlin and Munich trams, with the LRT04 chassis, and they seem to handle Unitram points and curves without any derailment or power issues. Also Hobbytrain M6 and M8 have no problem either (so far!)

Edited by PaulJ
correction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already show three types of Modemo articulated trams in my Teaser Video. My Tokyu deha200 B-1-B does lift the center axle only in right Unitram R180 curves or turnouts, and only in the pantograph forward running direction. This is apparently due to complex front-rear asymmetric design of the center axle and bellows mechanism and some tolerance issue binding the mechanism slightly in right turns only. That may account for the frequent center axle derailments in the video. I also have their Toei Arakawa line trams which do well, which I will show in a new video. 

 

Good to hear that your German trams also do well. I have the Tomytec Berlin and Munich trams and some Hobbytrain M6’s, but haven’t run either yet. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first real (non-teaser) UNITRAM Tram test video is out. This one is more polished and technical, but rather long at 13min. I plan about 10 more of these and will continue to improve.  Thanks to all of you for your comments on my teaser video. This helped me improve my test techniques, discussion, and presentation style, as I hope you will see. Please enjoy, comment, and share on YouTube as well as here!

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My latest UNITRAM Tram Tests are on Modemo N Tokyu Deha 150, 200, and 300 types. They were all present in my teaser video, but my new tests are more technical and with more samples of each type:

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×