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gavino200

German Intercity (IC) trains models.

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chadbag

Does that have the old DB logo or the new one?  Hard to tell in the image for me.    I have the Fleischmann BR120 in Orientrot with old logo and it could be bought pretty cheaply as it was part of a starter set.  DM-Toys no longer has it listed, which is where I got mine, but you might be able to find one broken out from the set for sale.

 

I also got lucky and got a Fleischmann BR120 in Traffic Red and new logo for a cheap price on eBay.  But I have not seen it since for a good price.

 

Good luck.

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Yavianice
5 minutes ago, chadbag said:

Does that have the old DB logo or the new one?  Hard to tell in the image for me.   

 

Old logo.

 

I have the one with the new logo. I got mine as part of the Minitrix 11636 TALGO set with the Baden Württemberg ads. The one without ads is Minitrix 11416. I personally don't like the old logo on anything but TEE/Rheingold colors so all my collections (Interregio, Intercity orient red, traffic red, stripe) are all with new logo, so are the loco's.

Edited by Yavianice
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Suica

I think epoch V is a super fun theme as you can go quite crazy with colours.

There are four IC colour schemes present during this era.

 

1974 - 1986 Purpurrot/Elfenbein (used until ca. 1995)

1986 - 1996 Orientrot (used until ca. 2004)

1996 - 2000 Verkehrsrot (used until ca. 2005)

2000 - ????  ICE colour

 

Occasionally you also got one or two D-Zug (Ozeanblau/Elfenbein) or IR (Fernblau) coaches, and until 1993 even East-German DR coaches, mixed into a consist as well.

Here are some nice examples:

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-103/1096283/einen-bunten-ic-hat-103109-am.html

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-101/1128189/101057-faehrt-hier-am-2342001-um.html

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-103/2775/br-103-unplanmaessiger-stopp-kurz-nach.html

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-103/5918/db-br-103-148-3-am-020103.html

Sorry for the BR 103 bias.😘 

I especially love the time around 2000 - 2004 when you could occasionally see three IC colour schemes in a single train.

 

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There are three locos for 200 km/h trains you wanna look out for:

 

BR 120.1 - Orientrot & Verkehrsrot + certain ad-wraps (from 1990)

BR 103 - any colour (from 1990 until 2005) No push-pull operation!

BR 101 - Orientrot & Verkehrsrot + certain ad-wraps (from 1996)

 

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Another thing you want to pay attention to are the logos on coaches and locos.

 

until Dec. 31st 1993: Bundesbahn logo (West) & Deutsche Reichsbahn logo (East)

from Jan. 1st 1994: DB AG logo

 

There was a period after Jan. 1994 when all three logos could be seen but this period was fairly brief as applying some logo stickers was probably not such a hard task back then.

Edited by Suica
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gavino200
4 hours ago, chadbag said:

Btw.  This is the start set that has that Orientrot / old logo DB BR 120 in it:

 

https://www.eurotrainhobby.com/fleischmann-analogue-starter-set-interc/p15068c217

 

This site has a slightly better picture. And some German for you to practice on. You can just make out the serif type face in the logo.

 

http://mobadaten.org/wiki/FLM_7351_(6)_DB_IV_BR_120.1_Elektrolokomotive

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gavino200
4 hours ago, Yavianice said:

 

I have the one with the new logo.

 

Interesting. Is yours Orientrot with new logo? They really were switching things up like crazy there for a while. I generally like san serif typeface better myself. But I love to see the gradual transition, through the Eras. It's like watching a train evolve. First color change/logo same then slight color change/ new logo.  I think I'll hunt down a BR120 in Orientrot with new old logo.

Edited by gavino200

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gavino200
1 hour ago, Suica said:

 

1996 - 2000 Verkehrsrot (used until ca. 2005)

2000 - ????  ICE colour

 

You mean the ICE colors on IC locos? I was in Germany last year and I saw few if any of those. Most IC locos were Verkehrsrot.

 

1 hour ago, Suica said:

 

Occasionally you also got one or two D-Zug (Ozeanblau/Elfenbein) or IR (Fernblau) coaches, and until 1993 even East-German DR coaches, mixed into a consist as well.

Here are some nice examples:

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-103/1096283/einen-bunten-ic-hat-103109-am.html

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-101/1128189/101057-faehrt-hier-am-2342001-um.html

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-103/2775/br-103-unplanmaessiger-stopp-kurz-nach.html

http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/deutschland~e-loks~br-103/5918/db-br-103-148-3-am-020103.html

Sorry for the BR 103 bias.😘 

I especially love the time around 2000 - 2004 when you could occasionally see three IC colour schemes in a single train.

 

I LOVE these ragamuffin trains. I'll be sure to run a few of them. I'll probably pick up a few IR coaches for just this purpose!

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Suica
1 minute ago, gavino200 said:

 

You mean the ICE colors on IC locos? I was in Germany last year and I saw few if any of those. Most IC locos were Verkehrsrot.

Oh no, those colours mentioned above are for coaches. Those ICE colour locos are BR 146 used for IC2 trains.

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Misha_K
5 hours ago, Suica said:

Oh no, those colours mentioned above are for coaches. Those ICE colour locos are BR 146 used for IC2 trains.

And the new Br 147 (Bombardier Traxx P160 AC3).

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Yavianice
9 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

Interesting. Is yours Orientrot with new logo?

Yes. If you look up the minitrix loco I mentioned you will see it.

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gavino200

So I've ordered most of the Era V IC train. Including a new BR120, and second hand Steuer wagon, two 1st class coaches (one compartment, one open plan), a restaurant car with pantograph, and three 2nd coaches (2 open plan and one compartment). I just need one more 2nd class compartment coach and  a decoder. 

 

Unfortunately, I had to buy a second restaurant car as I could only find a well priced steuerwagon as part of a set of 4 cars. I'll have to sell the extra one.

 

I'm now feeling an urge to get an Era V interregio train with an Orientrot BR 103. But I think I'll put that off for a while. Before that I'll probably have to get a new purpurrot/elfenbeim BR 103 to pull my Era IV IC train. The one I have now is old and a bit too slow for my liking.

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gavino200

I'm finding this database to be very helpful for making sense of  various German old and new releases. I couldn't help ordering an Orientrot BR 103 from the most recent Fleischmann release for a future Era V IR train. It'll sit without wagons for a while though. 

 

https://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/

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gavino200

I need help with calculating the postage costs for a single n scale passenger wagon from Europe to the US.

 

I was able to find my final epoch V IC car in an Austrian classified ad. Unfortunately, the seller isn't super enthusiastic about selling to the US as she doesn't know how to calculate postage costs from Austria to the US. Anyone know how I could calculate that?

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gavino200

My Era V cars have begun to arrive. I realize I made an error with the 1st Class/2nd class balance. I planned on two 1st class, and four 2nd class coaches. But I forgot that the Steuerwagen is a 2nd class coach. That gives me a 5:2 ratio which I think is too high. I may buy another 1st class carriage to make it 4:3. There's also a Bord Bistro which seems to be "classless".

 

I also managed to buy a "Kinderland" wagon for my IR train. 

 

Ccv6vM5.jpg?1

 

 

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Sheffie

British Rail inter-city trains used to be one first class, one buffet, and I think seven second class. 

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Yavianice
1 minute ago, gavino200 said:

My Era V cars have begun to arrive. I realize I made an error with the 1st Class/2nd class balance. I planned on two 1st class, and four 2nd class coaches. But I forgot that the Steuerwagen is a 2nd class coach. That gives me a 5:2 ratio which I think is too high. I may buy another 1st class carriage to make it 4:3. There's also a Bord Bistro which seems to be "classless".

 

I also managed to buy a "Kinderland" wagon for my IR train.

 

As far as I know the Kinderland never ran as Interregio. Only in the Königssee combination (on a related note, the Arnold version is the best looking and best price/quality ratio, in my opinion. The Fleischmann set looks too bland.)

 

As for 1st class / 2nd class balance, that depends where the train goes. For example, to the land of cheapskates (Netherlands) only 1 1st class would be in an 6-8 car train. To Graz (Austria) a normal composition would be 5 2nd class, 1 bistro, 2 1st class, 1 cabin car.

 

As for the Bord Bistro (which in your set is actually a Bordrestaurant), yes, it is classless and the whole car is a restaurant car. These were (if I am correct) later retired and replaced by the Bord Bistro cars with "break your wrist when opening" doors because those have a smaller bistro area and the rest 1st class section, to increase capacity, since Restaurant cars are not used by too many people anymore (probably because of the skyhigh prices, food options on stations, and people preferring to gobble up their food on their seat to keep an eye on their belongings).

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gavino200
22 minutes ago, Yavianice said:

 

As far as I know the Kinderland never ran as Interregio. Only in the Königssee combination (on a related note, the Arnold version is the best looking and best price/quality ratio, in my opinion. The Fleischmann set looks too bland.)

 

Thanks. I didn't know that. But I think I'd have bought it and included it anyway, as I think it looks good. I'm having a hard time breaking out of my Fleischmann comfort zone. It's taken a while to work out their classification, and I don't know that of other companies at all. I'm a bit afraid of the noticeable wagon height differences between companies that I've heard of. Also, I think one company (arnold) makes some wagons shorter. So I'll need to get my numbers straight. But especially for IR wagons, Fleischmann are more rare and go for higher prices than other brands, so I may use the IR train at my comfort zone break-out. 

 

22 minutes ago, Yavianice said:

 

As for 1st class / 2nd class balance, that depends where the train goes. For example, to the land of cheapskates (Netherlands) only 1 1st class would be in an 6-8 car train. To Graz (Austria) a normal composition would be 5 2nd class, 1 bistro, 2 1st class, 1 cabin car.

 

As for the Bord Bistro (which in your set is actually a Bordrestaurant), yes, it is classless and the whole car is a restaurant car. These were (if I am correct) later retired and replaced by the Bord Bistro cars with "break your wrist when opening" doors because those have a smaller bistro area and the rest 1st class section, to increase capacity, since Restaurant cars are not used by too many people anymore (probably because of the skyhigh prices, food options on stations, and people preferring to gobble up their food on their seat to keep an eye on their belongings).

 

Thanks, I guess two 1st class coaches will do for now. 

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Yavianice
2 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Also, I think one company (arnold) makes some wagons shorter.

 

That's Minitrix with their "Hobby" line. Arnold cars are superb, although the color is a bit different from Fleischmann IR cars. Though these are not supposed to run together so that does not matter.

 

3 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

I'm having a hard time breaking out of my Fleischmann comfort zone. It's taken a while to work out their classification, and I don't know that of other companies at all. I'm a bit afraid of the noticeable wagon height differences between companies that I've heard of.

 

As far as the normal EC cars go, there are no height differences. Some older cars do have height differences. Note that the "wide" doors and "narrow break your wrist" doors may look odd next to each other because of door length, but this is the case in reality also.

 

5 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

But especially for IR wagons, Fleischmann are more rare and go for higher prices than other brands, so I may use the IR train at my comfort zone break-out.

 

Be careful not to spend too much. Fleischmann will re-release their IR wagons later this year.

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Suica
2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

My Era V cars have begun to arrive. I realize I made an error with the 1st Class/2nd class balance. I planned on two 1st class, and four 2nd class coaches. But I forgot that the Steuerwagen is a 2nd class coach. That gives me a 5:2 ratio which I think is too high. I may buy another 1st class carriage to make it 4:3. There's also a Bord Bistro which seems to be "classless".

For such a short IC, two first class coaches are surely enough. 

The number of 1st class coaches in a train really has decreased over the years. I think the only ICs with more than one (or 1.5 in the case of a Bord Bistro) 1st class coach are those to/from Austria and Switzerland.

You can see some consists here: https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/razeni.php?zeme=DB&kategorie=IC&rok=2018 

Sadly, this database doesn't go back to era V.

 

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Yavianice
On 2/11/2019 at 6:39 PM, Suica said:

Until December 2016 to be precise. 103 245 was used on ICs out of Munich.

But even today you might be able to see it used on special trains

Widespread use ended around 2003, so it's still a good loco for epoch V ICs. Around that time almost all of them wore the current DB logo though.

 

Apparently BR 103 245 is still sometimes used as a replacement locomotive or during the nightshift for normal trains

 

 

 

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railsquid
12 hours ago, Sheffie said:

British Rail inter-city trains used to be one first class, one buffet, and I think seven second class. 

 

The mix and length will have depended on era and route. Speaking entirely from unreferenced memory here, if it is correct but trains to/from London usually had more first class coaches, while those linking the provinces (e.g. northeast to southwest trains via Birmingham) would be more like the formation you describe.

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railsquid

Ah yes here we go,  typical train from London arriving in Birmingham, 5 or 6 second, err standard class, buffet, then 4 first class (train at 7:05 onwards)

 

 

Edited by railsquid
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gavino200

This little beauty arrived today. Eventually it'll pull my Epoch V IR train.

 

NX21awh.jpg

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