Jump to content
gavino200

M-497 "Black Beetle" - Jet powered train

Recommended Posts

chadbag
27 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

Thanks Chad. That was interesting. I always wondered how airspeed was measured.

 

Btw, here is a good image of one that looks similar:

 

Qmywd.jpg

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200

A very rough cast of the cavities behind the windows, made from kid's "magic modeling clay". Tomorrow when it's dry I'll cut out the little cone/pyramid shapes to give me an idea of how the plexiglass will need to be carved. I'll need to choose the right thickness so that I can keep the smooth factory finish for the front and back surfaces. Thinner would be better as they will be more transparent and 'glass-like'.

 

The front window surface of the cast is damaged a bit as I had to poke it out a bit. I'm leaving the second on the front piece on a second blob over night in order to hopefully get a more accurate cast. I'm using a tiny smidge of cast release spray.

 

Ayj0MjJ.jpg

 

 

8YCU3d3.jpg

 

 

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

polymer clays are great. Most you bake to set them. Some can shrink a tiny bit, but for most all our uses I doubt it would make a huge difference. Not tried the air dry sculpt-it.

 

Get you some tiny dental bits and you can then grind in the details you want!

 

give the micro turning a try, it’s addictive, you start trying to see how tiny of things you can make...

 

marteen has some instructions up on the site on making a dedicated unit from a little drill kit ($5-20 in ebay). I’ve got the parts but have not gotten to making one as it was easy to just use the roto tool on the bench clamped down and a little heavy L bracket I had laying around for a tool stand for the blades and files. Very zen. I’m sure you have an excellent pair of loupes to use! This is where they really shine as it’s all work at a set point.

 

do you have any tricks to not get your neck muscles in knots using loupes? I always find I get them dialed in and I sort of lock my head in place, which I shouldn’t!

 

cheers,

 

jeff 

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200
On 8/20/2018 at 8:10 PM, cteno4 said:

Get you some tiny dental bits and you can then grind in the details you want!

 

I have some. I've never used them. I think I got them from Harbor Freight. I should dig them out and look at them.

 

Quote

 

give the micro turning a try, it’s addictive, you start trying to see how tiny of things you can make...

 

marteen has some instructions up on the site on making a dedicated unit from a little drill kit ($5-20 in ebay). I’ve got the parts but have not gotten to making one as it was easy to just use the roto tool on the bench clamped down and a little heavy L bracket I had laying around for a tool stand for the blades and files. Very zen. I’m sure you have an excellent pair of loupes to use! This is where they really shine as it’s all work at a set point.

 

Yes, I think it would be really fun. I've actually been thinking about a lathe for a while. I've never used one but I've always thought they were cool.

 

Quote

 

do you have any tricks to not get your neck muscles in knots using loupes? I always find I get them dialed in and I sort of lock my head in place, which I shouldn’t!

 

 

Actually yes. You really should have your loupes adjusted for you. Generally the rep comes to visit you and takes measurements. But my experience is that when you visit reps and salespeople, they're always helpful, regardless of there being no obvious sale on the horizon. So take your loupes to a Zeiss rep and see if you can have them adjusted. Can you post a link to your model of loupes btw.

 

It's really all about posture. This is important for comfort but also if you want to remain steady over a long period of time. 

 

This is the basic posture. In this case the diagram is for using an operating microscope. But the principles are the same. This image is copyright material from "Green's Operative Hand Surgery" so perhaps you can screenshot it and then remove it. I can't link it because it's behind a paywall. This posture is  a bit awkward at first but prevents back pain. 

 

 

 

For fixed loupes (microscopes are set into the lens) basically you sit in this position and the rep measures the working distance from where your hands are to your eyes. Then they measure your inter-pupilary distance, take your prescription if you wear glasses, and make a set just for you. 

 

Alternatively you can get a pair of "flip-up" loupes. These can generally be completely adjusted in all parameters. So you do the adjusting yourself, lock the adjustments and then try to simply flip them up and down as needed without messing up your settings. I have a pair of these that I got from a rep as a trial. They're technically my best loupes and cost a few thousand dollars. But I don't like them for work, so I just use them for trains. I got them for free, btw. 

 

These are my train loupes

www.medicalexpo.com/prod/carl-zeiss-meditec/product-67959-670557.html

 

The most important part of the picture here is subtle. It's that the hands (forearms in the picture - but hands would be more accurate) aren't floating in the air. It's impossible to be steady under magnification if you do this. Instead, it's better to build a little support for your hands out of folded cloth (or use the table) and use your fingers to operate the instruments. This is extremely crucial for true micro scale work, but for larger scale work an approximation is all you need.

 

To avoid neck pain you want to consider the "declination angle". This dentist site below explains the issue. Basically you want to avoid sticking your neck out forward. You can minimize this by having the loupes set into your lenses at a downward pointing angle. Or if your loupes are adjustable, you set them in this manner. 

 

https://posturedontics.com/are-your-loupes-causing-pain/

 

Most other "tricks" are common sense. Breathing, calm mind, etc. 

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Gavin,

 

thanks. I think my main problem is I’m use to leaning over what I’m working on and it usually never causes me problems as I move around enough that I don’t stiffen up (I know it’s not great to do that but it’s never bothered me at all to do this along with slouching). But when I use the loupes that makes me lock my head/neck/shoulders into position and not move. I think setting up as your diagram will work fine when I work with loops so I’m upright and neck and back not bent forwards.

 

ive found I don’t lock up using a lighted magnifying glass as it lets me move more and still focus well I only need to lock my hands and that’s not problem for me. But magnifying glass only gets you like 5x max. 

 

i did a lot of microscope work in grad school and was fine in the good upright position and doing micro manipulation for hours. 

 

Ive messed with a couple of cameras to try to do smaller stuff and just look at a big screen. Microscope work taught me to be able to look not where my hands are.

 

Bad habits!

 

jeff

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200

5x is plenty for this stuff. I doubt that your loupes are more than that. The field of vision narrows as the mag goes up. 5x loupes without prisms (the long microscopes) would be extremely difficult to use. That's why I use the long ones even though they're heavier. I only use the scope for sewing digital arteries and nerves or for flap work, and I believe it's usually set somewhere around 10x even though it can go a good bit higher.

 

This discussion just gave me an idea. I may keep my eyes open for a really old operating microscope, to buy sometime, for really tiny jobs. Not like the giant Leica scopes but an old fashioned small one like the kind you'd see in a research lab. 

 

 

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200

Close but no cigar. The cast of the window cavity clearly shoes that it flares out at the front. Unfortunately I didn't believe this. I thought this was just an artifact of the casting process. So I planned on making a pyramid/wedge shaped piece of plexiglass/acrylic to fit in from behind and poke out flush with the window. However, that flare is real so a window glass that's the right width for the window frame is too wide to fit in from behind. 

 

So I had to whittle it down and fit it in from the front. unfortunately its already slightly wedged, so it has the optical effect of narrowing the window. I'll have to start again. 

 

But I did solve one problem - how to carve something this small without losing control of it. I got an idea from a glass factory that I recently visited. The trick is to keep the piece attached to a large piece and work it almost to completion. Then just snip it off like at the end and tidy up the "sprue-point". I'm going to use this process again in my next attempt. 

 

nmdN9Dl.jpg

 

EZsSEz5.jpg

 

sQFqRsd.jpg

 

ACK8pHU.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Gavin,

 

another idea would be to just fill the slot with gallery glass and put an led behind it. 

 

I had a 60%off coupon at ac Moore and I picked up a tub of the sculpt it to try. I realized I had looked at it many times in the past but passed as it was such a big tub to buy.

 

jeff

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200
7 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Gavin,

 

another idea would be to just fill the slot with gallery glass and put an led behind it. 

 

Is that a goo that dries as clear plastic? It's a possibility. It may be hard to undo if not successful. Carving the windows should be possible. I only need two, so even if it takes multiple attempts it shouldn't take too long. 

 

I shouldn't need separate LEDs, and I'd also want to avoid adding more as this loco has a bunch of LEDs on it already.

 

Quote

 

I had a 60%off coupon at ac Moore and I picked up a tub of the sculpt it to try. I realized I had looked at it many times in the past but passed as it was such a big tub to buy.

 

 

Awesome. Can't wait to see what you make with it.

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Yep it’s fake stained glass and there are like 4 different clears. It’s great to smear over a smd leds to make a street light lens. 

 

Yes it might tough to remove if not right. As always test first.

 

jeff

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200

I could also consider making the the window glass out of super thin plastic, like the stuff used in packaging.

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Can your piece come in from the front and wedge in the flair on the outside and just have the extra open on the inside flair? The one you did looks pretty good! 

 

Or just make a lens that wedges into the flair on the outside and a light pipe that comes up to it from behind then. 

 

Might also try roto tool to grind it down, might give more control. The micro dental bits work great on this (just like doing a root canal!). I can drop some in the mail to you I have a pile of them.

 

That is a good way to work, use the stock to hold your piece and the cut it off once done. It also makes you think thru how you are going to go about your stock removal process on the piece. That’s how you do the micro turning, turn your piece but do any turning at the base where it attaches to the stock last, then “part off” the piece by cutting all the way thru.

 

im sure you will fiddle your way to a great solution!

 

cheers

 

jeff

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200
1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

Can your piece come in from the front and wedge in the flair on the outside and just have the extra open on the inside flair? The one you did looks pretty good! 

 

Thanks. I think I'll be able to get it. I used up a good bit some time trying to work tiny pieces before I came up with the "on-the-sprue" technique. 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

Or just make a lens that wedges into the flair on the outside and a light pipe that comes up to it from behind then. 

 

I don't need a light pipe for these pieces. They're cab windows rather than front lights so I don't want to have light beaming out of them. I'll make something more like a light pipe for the center light in the upper middle. And I haven't decided what the piece of glass on the bottom needs. I'm not sure if it's a ditch light or a camera mounting. There's no footage of this the prototype in the dark and I could swear I read/heard something about a camera mounting. 

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

 

Might also try roto tool to grind it down, might give more control. The micro dental bits work great on this (just like doing a root canal!). I can drop some in the mail to you I have a pile of them.

 

I also thought this morning about using a nail file or gluing a strip of sandpaper to a small flat stick. The sand paper is much more effective on the acrylic than a file. And I have some very fine grain paper 500-2000.

 

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

That is a good way to work, use the stock to hold your piece and the cut it off once done. It also makes you think thru how you are going to go about your stock removal process on the piece. That’s how you do the micro turning, turn your piece but do any turning at the base where it attaches to the stock last, then “part off” the piece by cutting all the way thru.

 

 

Agree. It's definitely the way to go. 

 

Not sure I'll get much don't this weekend as I've been commandeered for house and yard work.  

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200

All glass pieces carved and temporarily in place. The square hole for the camera nook/ditch light is uneven and will need some plastic putty. Also, looking at the photo I think the center top light glass may need to be re-done. Or the resin carved out behind the glass a little. I'll leave it a few days and look at it again when I can see it fresh again.

 

Looking ahead to fixing these in place on the finished model, it would be disastrous if any glue got on the smooth glass surface. Taking this into account I carved them to be a press fit. I may need to adjust them a bit to take into account the thickness of the paint. I also may add the tiniest bit of thin CA under mag. The other concern is that the action of 'press-fitting' may damage the paint and leave a visible white spot.

 

I'm leaving this now and going back to working on the skirting. My chopping equipment arrived in the mail today.

 

CDqpvfS.jpg

 

 

 

6q60xZN.jpg

 

Edited by gavino200
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Nice!

 

might try just a tad of pva glue as it pops off the clear pretty easy and could clean off the surface with water and a swab. 

 

PSA glue also is an option. You apply a little to the frame and let dry the press the glass in place. It’s sort of like rubber cement. Used for putting airplane model canopies on.

 

jeff

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200

My brad point drill bits arrived. The tips are coated in some kind of protective plastic. I can't find anything on the Lee Valley website on how to remove this stuff or what it even is???

 

Edit: never mind. They can be easily twisted off. Seems like latex.

 

I think I'll wait until next week before working on the skirts. I'm on call now and would rather work on it with no interruptions. That gives me a while to make a plan. If I get round to it I might work on kvp's circuit for powering the jet lights from the decoder motor output.

 

cI7Dk3u.jpg

Edited by gavino200

Share this post


Link to post
Kiha66
48 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

My brad point drill bits arrived. The tips are coated in some kind of protective plastic. I can't find anything on the Lee Valley website on how to remove this stuff or what it even is???

 

The plastic coating is to protect the finish and cutting edge on the blades, most industrial tips come in a similar way.  Usually they slide off with a little tugging, or you can cut them with a blade and peel them off the tip.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200
1 minute ago, Kiha66 said:

 

The plastic coating is to protect the finish and cutting edge on the blades, most industrial tips come in a similar way.  Usually they slide off with a little tugging, or you can cut them with a blade and peel them off the tip.

 

Lol. You answered as I was editing. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Be careful if trying to twist these off, my Lee valley bits are nasty sharp on the flutes! You can also cut it off with a matte knife.

 

be nice to these they are really nice bits! Did you get a drill press yet? Super handy. Smaller one is fine like a 8 or 10” (this means you can drill a hole 4 or 5” in from the edge of a board and would be a better way to label them but sounds bigger to have it how big a circle can you drill a hole in the center of!)

 

drill press is simple and super super handy and relatively inexpensive.

 

jeff

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200
35 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Be careful if trying to twist these off, my Lee valley bits are nasty sharp on the flutes! You can also cut it off with a matte knife.

 

Thanks. I was pretty careful. Those things are basically like razors. They're all off now with no trouble.

 

35 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

be nice to these they are really nice bits!

 

 

Yes, they're for special jobs only, like this. I doubt that I'll use them often.

 

35 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

 

Did you get a drill press yet? Super handy. Smaller one is fine like a 8 or 10” (this means you can drill a hole 4 or 5” in from the edge of a board and would be a better way to label them but sounds bigger to have it how big a circle can you drill a hole in the center of!)

 

drill press is simple and super super handy and relatively inexpensive.

 

No drill press yet. Maybe for Xmass (Chrismahannakwanzika). I did get a handle chuck that can take large bits though. I'm planning to "be" the drill press for this job.

 

I'm now going to jump through the wormhole and reappear in the DCC/electrics 'sister thread' to this one. I'll be there for a few days, but will return here this weekend to work on the skirting with my fun new tools. 

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Hmm dot know how well those will but by hand turning. Might try the power drill.

 

i was really shocked how sharp the bit were!

 

jeff

Share this post


Link to post
gavino200
10 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Hmm dot know how well those will but by hand turning. Might try the power drill.

 

i was really shocked how sharp the bit were!

 

jeff

 

Yes, they're extremely sharp. I think they'll eat through the styrene like a hot knife through butter. 

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

I’ve had various sets of cheaper brad point bits over the years and I just noticed while doing a lot of the JRM layout stuff where I was doing more precise and repeated holes for stuff to bolt together that my brad points tips on some bits were not perfectly centered and wobbled a bit, also outside cut was not really perfectly clean. I finally broke down and got the big set from Lee valley and it’s just anoother world! Wish I had invested in them a long time back. They will last me my lifetime and I’ll just use them in the drill press, I’ll use the old set with the hand drill for the stuff that doesn’t need the nice stuff. I live that these you can also replace a single bit if you mess one up. 

 

I think your new house will need a drill press! I hope it will have a dedicated shop for you!

 

Jeff

Share this post


Link to post
chadbag
26 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

I’ve had various sets of cheaper brad point bits over the years and I just noticed while doing a lot of the JRM layout stuff where I was doing more precise and repeated holes for stuff to bolt together that my brad points tips on some bits were not perfectly centered and wobbled a bit, also outside cut was not really perfectly clean. I finally broke down and got the big set from Lee valley and it’s just anoother world! Wish I had invested in them a long time back. They will last me my lifetime and I’ll just use them in the drill press, I’ll use the old set with the hand drill for the stuff that doesn’t need the nice stuff. I live that these you can also replace a single bit if you mess one up. 

 

I think your new house will need a drill press! I hope it will have a dedicated shop for you!

 

 

Thanks for the recommendation of the Lee Valley.  

 

I have a metric and an imperial set of Fisch brad point drill bits for my guitar building, and they are awesome, but they don't get as small as the Lee Valley.  I'll probably have to look at getting a set of Lee Valley ones.  They look good from what I can see.

 

And I know you were not talking to me, but our new house will have a woodshop room and a train room 🙂

 

Share this post


Link to post
cteno4

Yes I was down between the lee valley and the fisch when getting this good (expensive) set and went with the lee valley as I could find a bit more on them than the fisch when researching. Also the lee valley are pretty unique in having the side cutting blades so they tend to tear less on the edges going in, sort of pre scribes the outside and then the blade carves it out cleanly. Wished I had popped for these (like the saws stop table saw) 20 years ago! They are worth it for a lifetime of use.

 

great to hear on the new house, priorities must be made! 

 

Jeff

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×