Tender First Operations

[ATShinkansen]

So one thing I was pleased to find in my D51 SL set was an optional pilot with rapido coupler. This has led me to wonder if it would be prototypical to operate tender first. It would save me the expense of buying a turntable, but were Japanese SLs just as bad about running in reverse as American ones were?

 

Thanks,

Aaron

[Densha]

I have yet to find any evidence of D51s running like this, but several loco types from the C series definitely are able to run tender first.

 

C56 + C57: http://www.ab.auone-net.jp/~azm01/page121.html

 

C11 (although this type doesn't really have an actual 'tender'):

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Densha

[kvp]

All steam locomtives were able to run tender first, but most of them didn't do it often if there was an alternative. Tank locos and those which had headlights on the tender were much better in it.

 

Museum operations often have to resort to tender first running as the number of working turntables have dropped considerably. This is almost always done at a reduced speed.

[Fenway Park]

In JNR days tender first running appears restricted to certain workings.

In Kyushu I have seen photos of tender working by D50 on passenger workings on the branch that lead to Kajima colliery. There were others but mainly 9600 on freight workings.

C62s worked a small number of commuter trains tender first on the Kure Line to and from Hiroshima.

 

Also D51s were used as banking or assisting locos on the switchback lines in Kyushu including the Okoba Loop, attached to the rear of the train. D52s were used on the Sanyo Line until electrification.

 

Will try to find links..

[ATShinkansen]

Okay, so it seems like it wouldn't be too out of place to implement this kind of operation. I'm surprised that C62s operated tender first regularly on some lines. (I'm considering getting one of those, too!)

[bikkuri bahn]

Kure Line in Hiroshima Prefecture.  C62 and C59 types were used on evening commuter runs for mainly high school students with tender first running, on account of no turning facilties available at the appropriate locations.

http://blog-imgs-36.fc2.com/s/l/i/slim2000/84-c6215.jpg

 

Scroll down to the 26th or 27th image on this page:

http://www.geocities.jp/bisanrr/kure1.html

[Fenway Park]

Thanks for posting the links to the Kure Line C62 and C59 workings.

Too busy at the moment with work to look through my saved items.

 

Malcolm

[marknewton]

As nearly all the D51s I've ever seen or seen photos of have a headlight on the tender, I'd say that tender-first running was nothing unusual for them. And I have many, many photos of them doing just that. There's a classic photo in one of Greg Triplett's books of a pair of D51s banking a freight train on the Hakubi line while running tender first - that's just another reason for me to model the line. :)

 

Two things to remember about running steam locos tender first - it puts the driver on the wrong side relative to the signals, and it greatly reduces visibility from the cab, unless the engine has a turret tender like the C56s. So many railways would restrict the speed of engines running tender first. On my railway, locos running tender first are restricted to 40kph. I once ran my engine all the way from Hornsby to Sydney Terminal via the main tender first. I hope I never have to do it again.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Edited April 12, 2017 by marknewton

[kvp]

Two things to remember about running steam locos tender first - it puts the driver on the wrong side relative to the signals, and it greatly reduces visibility from the cab, unless the engine has a turret tender like the C56s. So many railways would restrict the speed of engines running tender first. On my railway, locos running tender first are restricted to 40kph. I once ran my engine all the way from Hornsby to Sydney Terminal via the main tender first. I hope I never have to do it again.

There were numerous examples in european railroad history of steam locomotives propelling push-pull sets. In these cases the driver was actually in the control car, so visibility was not an issue, but it also required steam locomotives that have the same (or nearly the same) reversed speed as their forward speed. For example in Hungary, both continous mainline running or propelling passenger sets were only allowed for most tender locomotives with certain types of tenders. For example the MAV class 424 (a 4-8-0 or 2-D type) was required to use 4 axle bogie tenders (resulting in a 2-D+2-2 locomotive) and later some of these tenders were upgraded with backwards looking windscreens (including air operated wipers) allowing a fully weatherproof cab environment when they were used as road switchers (which operated half the time tender first at mainline speeds).

 

What i could not really find in JNR era (or later) Japan is push-pull sets. (steam, diesel or electric) I do understand that most lines switched to EMU/DMU operation as soon as it was possible, but that the technology was not used at all (except some tiny scenic railways) is a bit of a surprise for me. (if anyone knows more, please correct me)

[velotrain]

Then there's the French bicabine - big brother to the double ended trams, although no formal tender involved.

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pinguely_bicabine_31_Is%C3%A8re.jpg

 

 

I have a custom built G scale model of one, if anyone here knows some garden railroader who might be interested.