Tomytec gray market (op-ed)

[cteno4]

<op-ed>

 

Well it appears that there is now a gray market for tomytec stuff! several hong kong sellers have been selling visual scenery items before they are released by tomytec with different numbers and packaging. Rich Kerr has found some have been selling tomytec tram mechanisms (same mechanism with tomytec stamps and everything the same) that are shipped with different stock numbers and packaging.

 

It appears this may be some of the factories churning out a little extra of a product to sell on the gray market. Could also be factory seconds that are being packaged by outsiders getting there hands on the stuff. either way its a big rip off to tomy.

 

so far the prices have not been so incredible that hopefully they will not sell well. this is a big rip off to tomy as they paid a huge amount to design and do the tooling of the product and these guys are stealing all that. worse than the knockoffs as these guys are probably using tomy's moulds and factory production lines. the simplicity of the tomytec stuff makes this easier to do than it happening with higher quality/detailed stuff, but i would not be surprised if it were to happen.

 

this has been a problem for many companies doing production like this in china as the night shift turns out some extra for the gray market. Hong Kong is the big point of distribution for this sort of stuff. amazing if you visit the markets what you can find as a gray, second, or knockoff! the factory churn is high in china, so they dont seem to care if they get caught and dont get the next job with a company. a friend who has stuff made there for us companies says that its rare when you find a factory you end up using again and again, and even then things can abruptly change at any time with a factory.

 

So i would suggest folks avoid buying this stuff if it does not look like its the correct packaging, quantity, or some outlandishly low price. Luckily shipping from hong kong of small stuff seems to be high for them (most hong kong stores want more than the same thing from japan for shipping) that it should keep this in check some hopefully. Lets not let these guys rip off the manufactures that are supporting our hobby. They invest large sums of money to design, tool, manufacture, and distribute the stuff we love and need!

 

</op-ed>

cheers

 

jeff

[jappomania]

For me only 100% original, I buy Tomix, Microace, Kato now and forewer, I hate fake copy (and for original Italian products this is the same biggest problem...)

 

Massimo

[Guest ___]

<op-ed>

 

Well it appears that there is now a gray market for tomytec stuff! several hong kong sellers have been selling visual scenery items before they are released by tomytec with different numbers and packaging. Rich Kerr has found some have been selling tomytec tram mechanisms (same mechanism with tomytec stamps and everything the same) that are shipped with different stock numbers and packaging.

 

It appears this may be some of the factories churning out a little extra of a product to sell on the gray market. Could also be factory seconds that are being packaged by outsiders getting there hands on the stuff. either way its a big rip off to tomy.

 

so far the prices have not been so incredible that hopefully they will not sell well. this is a big rip off to tomy as they paid a huge amount to design and do the tooling of the product and these guys are stealing all that. worse than the knockoffs as these guys are probably using tomy's moulds and factory production lines. the simplicity of the tomytec stuff makes this easier to do than it happening with higher quality/detailed stuff, but i would not be surprised if it were to happen.

 

this has been a problem for many companies doing production like this in china as the night shift turns out some extra for the gray market. Hong Kong is the big point of distribution for this sort of stuff. amazing if you visit the markets what you can find as a gray, second, or knockoff! the factory churn is high in china, so they dont seem to care if they get caught and dont get the next job with a company. a friend who has stuff made there for us companies says that its rare when you find a factory you end up using again and again, and even then things can abruptly change at any time with a factory.

 

So i would suggest folks avoid buying this stuff if it does not look like its the correct packaging, quantity, or some outlandishly low price. Luckily shipping from hong kong of small stuff seems to be high for them (most hong kong stores want more than the same thing from japan for shipping) that it should keep this in check some hopefully. Lets not let these guys rip off the manufactures that are supporting our hobby. They invest large sums of money to design, tool, manufacture, and distribute the stuff we love and need!

 

</op-ed>

cheers

 

jeff

 

Are you sure it is actual gray market and not counterfeit? A lot of the Gunpla stuff Bandai makes, especially with the resin have been making the rounds for years as counterfeit garage counterfeits. Not jsut Gundam, but a lot of anime, manga, J-music and J-toys. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see counterfeit Tomytec stuff.

[bill937ca]

Buildings arrive in plastic bags without the boxes or little folder.

[alpineaustralia]

I recently bought 6 little buildings exactly as you described from a HK dealer on ebay not suspecting that they may not be legit until I read your post. I dont think they are counterfeit and they came with the correct decals etc but only the box was missing. But they could be gray market.

 

They can in only the plastic bags. The missing box is neccesarily a tell tale sign as I recently bought some legitimate buildings from an Australian hobby store where the box didnt show what the building inside was. The store owner had to open the box to see what was inside. An ebay seller would not bother repacking items in an opened box if they wanted to save on postage. Well that was my thinking on it at the time anyway. Having said that I did wonder why they were 30% cheaper than the equivalent item bought from Japan.

 

Hmmmmm?

[cteno4]

Yes it is all up to question, but its really suspect when one of the scenery kits showed up from one of the HK ebay guys before it was released. others are being sold in very odd lots and they seem to have a good supply of them to do these odd lots so its not someone just selling off some extras. others also have a different from tomytec product numbers.

 

Why ditch the boxes, even if you need to pop them open to know what they are? its a small fraction of the weight for the larger items. in the past with the tomytec vehicles the HK sellers would open the boxes to tell you what it is but still send the item in the box.

 

I doubt its someone trying to do resin casts at these prices. would take way too much trouble to make moulds, cast and paint.

 

the tram mechanism come in a different box with chinese and japanese on the box apparently, but the mechanism are tomytec in all they could make out including the stamps in the metal.

 

really think these are product overruns or seconds that are being quietly pushed out the back door for a few bucks.

 

anyhow something to watch for and see if we can find out more details. interesting to hear a few folks who got the buildings w/o boxes. i am tempted to buy a couple just to do a direct comparison to the real things to see what any differences are.'

 

i guess i react a bit strong to this as my design partner had a lot of stuff ripped off both in china and here in the US by overruns and clones. really narrows the window a product can make any money in and can kill your sales if the product shows up in other channels or competitors. we abandoned a computer desk project we had almost done as the major brand that was going to buy it and produce it was worried its new features would get cloned too fast! bummer to have some new and good ideas only to be told that its too nifty and would make it get ripped off faster and thus lower its over all profit to the point they did not want to do it! very silly.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

My apologies Jeff!

 

Well I believe I have found the source of these so-called "off-brand Tomytec".  Kodansha is offering another subscription series. As this is JAM show time I imagine Kodansha has an exhibit at the show and it is a good time to launch a railway subscription offer in Japan. This is a subscription series where you pay by lump sum or automatic debit and every week you get a Japanese train case size box with an piece for 50 or 75 weeks.

 

This is the new subscription series for 75 weeks.

 

http://shop.kodansha.jp/bc/shonenjidai/about/index.html

 

http://shop.kodansha.jp/bc/shonenjidai/about/lineup.html

 

This is the previous Kodansha subscrition series for 50 weeks.

 

http://shop.kodansha.jp/bc/tetsudomokei/

 

http://shop.kodansha.jp/bc/tetsudomokei/list.html

 

It is only 60cm x 45cm or 24" x 18". Its probably as much aimed at the non-railfan as the railfan.  Or maybe more people attracted by the diorama itself, with the lights and railway providing a bit of automation.

 

I first became aware of these through this blog which covers his Kodansha subscription.

 

http://shin3tetsu.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/cat12256111/index.html

 

The photos in the blog show the sets have brown ballast the same as the track bbicn is selling on eBay.  This hasn't been in the Tomix line for a few years.

 

All the buildings in the back row in this photo are available on the bbicn eBay page. I bought several that are exactly like these from bbicn. They appealed to me because they would good stores for a micro streetcar layout I am building.

 

http://shin3tetsu.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2007/10/img/20071016c.jpg

 

The buildings come in plastic bags without the usual Tomytec packaging since they are packaged in Kodansha subscription series packaging.  Most of the items bbicn had been selling on eBay could easily be found in one of these sets.  Sellers in Hong Kong would probably view these sets as more valuable as individual pieces than as a set.

 

The more I look at that blog, the more I believe left over Kodansha sets were the source of some of the "gray market" Tomytec items that appeared on eBay recently.  The KT markings may simply be for Kodansha train or similar.

 

To me it looks like these are Tomytec/Tomix bulk sets broken up by dealers in Hong Kong. Kodansha may not have sold all units  and decided to sell most of the others to jobbers.  (I think the previous subscription can still be ordered, but its a Japanese language page so I'm not sure.) Sellers in Hong Kong would probably view these sets as more valuable as individual pieces than as a set. The small differences may be deliberate by Tomytec, Tomix and Kodansha to protect their normal marketing channels.

 

Here is a video of the previous Kodansha offering.  

 

http://shop.kodansha.jp/bc/tetsudomokei/train.asx

 

I'm content my purchases from bbicn are genuine.

[Guest ___]

Wondering if this may be a motivating factor for Tomy to have started selling the Town Collections as individual building collections in this year.

[cteno4]

Bill,

 

hey thats great to hear. this makes a lot of sense and makes me feel much better that tomy's factories are not ripping them off! upon thinking some more on the subject i expect tomy's size would probably give them good clout to keep this sort of gray marketing to a minimum and i would not be surprised if they owned their own factories to avoid the here this year gone next that is the hallmark of the modern chinese manufacturing biz. I know it was really hard for my design partner's biz to hold onto a good factory for producing their pieces and the same with some of their big clients like hold everything, container store, etc.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[cteno4]

Wondering if this may be a motivating factor for Tomy to have started selling the Town Collections as individual building collections in this year.

 

I expect it was more a factor that they had rung the collector market dry and saw a great secondary market in the train folks who may want 1-2 buildings at a time. since they had the moulds was easy to produce some more for this secondary market. the break up stuff looks like it may be small potatoes to what tomy could sell thru their channels.

 

cheers

 

jeff