Modeling "stacked" catenary towers

[velotrain]

A quick scan of HS indicates that there are no commercial models of these towers, so I guess it's a question of bashing together multiple single crossbar towers.

 

http://www.geocities.jp/takeshi_departure/image/haikyo/turumi/07.jpg

 

If anyone here has done this, could you recommend the best starting point?  i.e. - a particular kit by manufacturer X.

I would prefer the lattice-work poles - if not the crossbars.

 

I believe I have seen a few of these in model shots over the years.

 

No doubt World Kogei or others have offered etched brass versions in HO.

 

thanks

[kvp]

Imho the Tomix N scale substation kit has 3 such towers in it, but the height is too low as they are the connection towers for the transformers.

[Kiha66]

This might be a good candidate for 3d printing as well depending on the amount needed.  High quality resin printing like shapeways provides would give great detail at higher cost, or a much cheaper print could be had a lower quality from a home printer or shapeways more basic options. 

[HantuBlauLOL]

this?

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10089679

 

the old one was more mod-able.. you could choose both single and double track "head", head height, etc..

but i don't think it's still produced

 

 

This might be a good candidate for 3d printing as well depending on the amount needed.  High quality resin printing like shapeways provides would give great detail at higher cost, or a much cheaper print could be had a lower quality from a home printer or shapeways more basic options. 

 

home printers can't produce that detail at all.. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by HantuBlauLOL

[kvp]

i meant this old kit: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10009839

but this might be a better start as it's really see through: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10141569

[Nick_Burman]

 

home printers can't produce that detail at all.. 

 

 

In this case one would have to send the job to a contractor like Shapeways or i.materialise.

 

Cheers NB

[cteno4]

Yeah a styrene extrusion printer would not be happy with that type of structure at all.

 

There was a chap in Taiwan a while back making great boxed catenary like this from etched brass. I think he had done some stacked stuff like this along with very wide yard canenaty box construction cross pieces. We had a thread somewhere on it.

 

Jeff

[nah00]

Plastruct does make a number of trusses that would be appropriate for this, but beware they are a pain to work with and for the amount you need it'll be pricey. 

[cteno4]

Found the tread, many links are dead though.

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/2894-yard-trusses/

 

Yeah I think I would try messing with the etched brass cross and x bracing as the plastruct is heavier type structure than catenary.

 

This would be a cool one to etch and fold. I found out the local etching costs were not horrible, just only economical to do larger sheets not little ones! Pretty easy to do at home but a messy process to be careful with, but not horrid. I did a lot of pc boards in high school decades ago. Only ended up with holes in my shirt when I was sloppy and didn't wear the rubber apron!

 

Cad work is also a lot easier than 3D cad!

 

Jeff

[HantuBlauLOL]

There was a chap in Taiwan a while back making great boxed catenary like this from etched brass. I think he had done some stacked stuff like this along with very wide yard canenaty box construction cross pieces. We had a thread somewhere on it.

 

Jeff

 

ah, that could be the solution.

 

or lasercut 1mm PCBs.

[cteno4]

Or lasercut thin brass and fold to get close to scale. Would be fiddly!

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.  I would only need one - up to possibly three, for a potential Okawa module and perhaps others for a bridge module.  So, I think kvp's suggestion of the Unitrack Double Track Wide Rahmen Catenary Poles would be the winner.  I never understood the ramen part, but just realized it's a reference of the thinness of the lace elements to that of noodles.  The substation structures just look too boxy and heavy to me.  Based on what comes in the Kato kit, I might only use three crosspieces on each, which would give me two structures with a couple of pole sections left over.  Or, buy two kits, and build three with four crosspieces each?

 

BTW - I've noticed variations of these on several lines, sometimes with electrical equipment mounted on them, I think small transformers.  What is the general reason for building these - say in the case of this segment of the Tsurumi?  I'm guessing that in the past - when there was greater ridership, there were two tracks to Okawa, both electrified?  Or - someone projected adding a second track/bridge, but it never got built.

 

If I were to scratch build, instead of Plastruct I would go with Central Valley pieces, which are much more reasonably priced, and have basic rivet detail.

 

http://www.shop.cvmw.com/N-Scale-Steel-Lace-and-Gussets-1813.htm

 

 

 

 

For those not familiar with this small manufacturer, they produce a single truss bridge that puts the Kato and Tomix products to shame in terms of proto construction fidelity and detail.  What's known in the US as a "foreground model".  Admittedly, it's of Showa era design, so I suspect only a limited number of Japan modelers could use it.  One possibility might be as a scenic item that is left over from an abandoned rural line - perhaps converted to pedestrian use?  Hmmm . . . I like that idea.

 

http://www.shop.cvmw.com/NScale150ftPrattTrussBridgeKit-1810.htm

 

I don't know if they have any distribution channels outside of the US. 

 

For Mark et al, they also produce some beautiful HO bridges, as well as several types of girders for scratch building.

 

 

 

[nah00]

 

 

BTW - I've noticed variations of these on several lines, sometimes with electrical equipment mounted on them, I think small transformers.  What is the general reason for building these - say in the case of this segment of the Tsurumi?  I'm guessing that in the past - when there was greater ridership, there were two tracks to Okawa, both electrified?  Or - someone projected adding a second track/bridge, but it never got built.

 

 

 

My (uneducated) guess is simply for economy of space. Instead of taking up space to run separate high voltage lines you just stack them on top of the already existing ones and it saves you having to build separate pylons. Also in the event of a failure of the line from natural disaster you would only have one tower to repair versus 3 or 4. 

[kvp]

If you check the original image there is no track under it. The idea is to route the high voltage industrial 3 phase supply over the road as that avoids using private properties and all the clearence and maintenance access problems. The lines got routed to the artificial islands over road and railroad bridges as they were the cheapest solutions. It's possible to route a higher voltage main line and a lower voltage industrial power (distribution) line with 3 levels and two lines per level. Isolators are looking down in an angle. The small transformers are either boost transformers or main to local distribution feed points.

 

The actual DC traction catenary is independent from the power linrs but might get mounted on the poles here and there. The two nets are normally not connected and the traction network needs a small substation to convert from 3 phase AC to single wire DC used for railway power around Tokyo.

 

ps: Imho the most unique mast of this type is a multilevel H frame with traction power (catenary) on the lowest level and 3 times 3 phases of power on the higher levels for a total of 10 to 12 power lines on a single frame.

[Kabutoni]

FLOR VERDE offers a cardboard laser cut version: http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/joshin/4582310070660-53-15579.html They don't seem to have a personal website.

[velotrain]

If you check the original image there is no track under it.

 

What?

 

Okawa station is to the left in the photo, and the line to Tsurumi runs under the towers seen on the right.

 

I realize the focus isn't great, but this photo shows the track under the towers.

 

http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/015/011/63/N000/000/000/128780198352616132275_PA230903.JPG

[velotrain]

FLOR VERDE offers a cardboard laser cut version: http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/joshin/4582310070660-53-15579.html They don't seem to have a personal website.

 

Thanks, Toni - it is quite attractive, but I can't begin to imagine tackling that as my first exposure to "paper" kits. 

 

I'm much more comfortable bashing styrene, and find it rather enjoyable and satisfying.

[kvp]

Sorry, i meant this link: http://www.geocities.jp/takeshi_departure/image/haikyo/turumi/07.jpg

The line does run under the towers but the catenary is not supported on them and the towers move off over the road at the place above.

 

And yes, kitbashing the Kato catenary masts into these 3 phase AC towers do seem to be the easiest solution. Just make sure the bottom crossbar is high enough that the traction catenary and the power lines could not touch.

[velotrain]

Yes, that's the link I took you to mean - I added the second image just to show you that there is indeed track under the towers.

[Bob_NZ]

sorry - wrong forum

Edited February 22, 2017 by gcmr_new_zealand

[bill937ca]

Greenmax makes a "Transformation Pillar" (3pcs.) (Greenmax 2180) which an update of the old Greenmax 75 kit. That probably should be a transformer pillar. So much for machine translation.  :)

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10169337

Edited February 24, 2017 by bill937ca

[velotrain]

Thanks, Bill - I've got a package of those lying around somewhere.

[bill937ca]

I find the best way to find detail pieces from Greenmax (structures), Tomytec (Visual Scene Collection) and Tsugawa on Hobby Search is to do a page by page review.  You can never be sure of the translation. It takes some time but the list is much more satisfying. The pocket book.......well.

[velotrain]

Can you explain just what you mean by "page by page review" ?

 

Their translations seem really bizarre to me - much poorer than Google.

 

Some train word seems to often translate as aircraft  ;-)

[bill937ca]

I do a search under, for instance under Greenmax and select structures from the Item Series draw down menu and then go through each page one at a time. I do the same for Tomytec and use the draw down list for Visual Scene Collection. With Tsugawa, I usually just browse through each page. Then I usually Wish List the items I am considering. The issue may not only be the translation but the original terminology on the Japanese end.

 

I really only find broad or very specific (like a single item by number)  searches effective. You never know what it will be listed under or if the spelling will be right.

Edited February 24, 2017 by bill937ca