ED16 window bars

[velotrain]

Looking at photos of the ED16, I notice that on many of them the first and last of the five carbody windows (not counting the cab windows) have been opened / removed, and replaced with a varying (sometimes on a single unit) number of horizontal metal bars at the bottom of the window frame.  I had taken this as a means of getting increased circulation in the warmer months.  The adjacent cab window is also often open, and at least one image shows the bars but the window closed.

 

I'm considering modeling this on my recently acquired Kato ED16, but was wondering if anyone has info on why the windows are open, or what the purpose of the bars is.  I have a photo of a Models Imon ED16 (presumably HO) that has these bars installed, although the number appears different at either end - as is often the case on the prototype.  I'll attach a few images, starting with the Imon, and then an unknown model - which is missing the "text display areas" below the cab window.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jcarlton]

At a guess the bars are to prevent crew members from using the windows for checking the pans and then falling out and hurting themselves.  Or there's electrical equipment underneath the windows and the bars are to keep crew members from leaning over for the same reason. 

[velotrain]

Thanks for the suggestions, but the cab windows open, so the crew could just as well have checked the pans from there - or used the steps at the end platforms for a closer look.

 

ED16-2 (3rd photo) shows only 2 bars at one end and none at the other, so minimal effectiveness at blocking anything.  It's largely this inconsistency that puzzles me, and other ED16 engines didn't get this treatment at all - it definitely appears to be a locally applied option.

 

The bars on ED17-7 would be much better for blocking someone or something going through - in either direction.

[Kiha66]

Interesting, I've noticed similar bars on some DD51 locomotives, with the odd partial window coverage as well.  Also some late kiha 82 units (I'm guessing in Hokkaido?) have them on the drivers door, but not on any other windows.  Hope someone can shed some light on this mystery.

 

[velotrain]

I'm going to guess that these three examples all have different functions, although I have no idea just what they are.

 

The seriousness of the "grates" on the kiha 82 units make them appear to be anti-access, although I don't really understand it, as there's an unprotected cab window right next to them.  Another possibility might be that the other cab windows are made of safety-glass, while these aren't, although I didn't think that objects thrown at trains was a major problem in Japan.

 

The bars on the DD51 engines are quite mysterious, as most of them seem to be needlessly "protecting" body panels.

Since in each case handrails project further out than the "grills", I almost wonder if these engines are routinely subject to some undefined side force at these particular locations somewhere in their customary travels?  It wouldn't seem to be a loading gauge issue.  Offhand, it seems truly bizarre.

[katoftw]

The DD51 fitted with the bars were for cold regional running.  I'd guess something to do with snow or blizzards.

[velotrain]

Based on their position, the intent could be to disturb/break up snow so it doesn't stick to the door.

[bill937ca]

The bars on the ED16 are probably like the bars that once were on many US trolleys.  They were there to prevent someone from sticking their arm or head out the window in places of narrow devil strips.  Typically with trolleys these were former horse car lines that had never been rebuilt and once large double streetcars appeared on the scene clearances could only be a matter of inches.  These also may not have been the most important lines and had not been rebuilt or abandoned yet. Tight clearances on railway lines could also extend to tunnels.

 

Scroll down here for an example of a 5 inch clearance between two Nearside cars in Philadelphia.  This was one of the earliest trolley to be converted in Philadelphia.

 

Once the tight lines were closed the bars could be removed, but it might be more trouble than it was worth.

Edited December 9, 2016 by bill937ca

[velotrain]

I don't see any relationship between the ED16 and trolleys, and these are only at one or two windows - which are likely not adjacent to seats.

[Jcarlton]

It might be the situation where the motors lost reserve pressure and had to raise the pans using the hand pump like this motor in Switzerland that I ran into recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc_Ro0OlNms

You see the crew pumping up the pan and leaning out the window.  It wouldn't surprise me that the pump, as auxiliary equipment is behind the cab and right next to the windows.  With the windows being as high as they are I can see people jumping on the sills and either breaking the sills or falling out.  The other alternative is rocks like we had back in the 1970's here, but then why not the cab and front windows too?

[velotrain]

Perhaps someone on the list knows if manually needing to pump the pans was a common experience for ED16 crews, justifying the installation of a varying number of horizontal bars on these windows.  However, I'd imagine that pan progress could be observed - communicated from the end decks, obviating the need to lean out windows.

 

What confuses me about the video is why did they lower one of the pans just to raise the other one.  They were clearly without power when the front one was down, but does that mean the rear one was only up for non-functional reasons?  They didn't bother to raise it before taking off.

[kvp]

Those windows were mostly open on many pictures, probably to improve machine room ventillation. Cab windows were mostly open only when the cab was in use. What is interesting is that these open windows are around child height when standing next to a standard high platform. This makes it easy for kids to lean/climb in. I also remember why some emu doors had tiny windows at the top, so kids didn't put their hands and face to the glass while the door was opening. The varying number and height of the bars could be the level os seriousness the bar installing directive was implemented by maintenance crews and how they were maintained later. (it's easier to remove rusted bars and make them spaced wider or put the remaining ones on the bottom) This is just my speculation...

[velotrain]

This seems plausible kvp - it certainly addresses the variation we see, which also suggests that these were installed locally based on the perceived need. 

 

I would think it needed to be an older child, of an age that the parent might not be next to them, as the bottom of these windows is maybe 6-10" higher than that of the cab window - based on the driver of 16-2.

[Jcarlton]

I was looking for pic of ED16's and found some videos of the motors in operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJSnTAiJL7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AztwebNlThs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb5Pp1Ow2CA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSlHaeqE1gQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDH77AT-SIw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXLPBEW_W70&t=255s

 

Still no clues about the safety cages, but they do prove that there are no toilets aboard and when you gotta go, you gotta go.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Jcarlton

[velotrain]

Thanks for the video links JC.

 

Based on them, it seems to me that the window in question is some height above the platform, so I'm less certain of kids being able to reach into them.

 

I tried to find interior photos / floor plans to see what would be at that location, but had no luck.

[Kiha66]

I found a general layout from the Japanese wiki, doesn't look like there's anything in particular that stands out as a reason for the bars from the floor plan.  Not very much room for anything behind the window either, as that space seems to be occupied by the cab doors. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Kiha66

[marknewton]

I reckon you're all on the wrong track, if you'll pardon the pun. Think about what method of safeworking was used to authorise the passage of trains on single-line sections before automatic signalling and/or CTC, and how that authority was conveyed to the loco crew...

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Jcarlton]

I reckon you're all on the wrong track, if you'll pardon the pun. Think about what method of safeworking was used to authorise the passage of trains on single-line sections before automatic signalling and/or CTC, and how that authority was conveyed to the loco crew...

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Good point.  If the crew doesn't catch the loop, the ball will go right into that window.

[velotrain]

I haven't looked, but wouldn't we see these bars on all trains of the era?

 

Is there some reason they'd use these windows - having to pass through the door first, instead of the cab window that the crew is already seated at?

[marknewton]

If you look around you'll see that many trains of this era had the protection bars. But they would only be necessary on locos or trains that ran on single lines where staff or tablet block working is in use.

 

The bars on the windows aren't there to stop people falling out, they're to protect the window from being broken if the the hoop containing the staff or tablet swings back as it's caught, either by the crew member in the adjacent window, or the token exchange apparatus.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Jcarlton]

If you look around you'll see that many trains of this era had the protection bars. But they would only be necessary on locos or trains that ran on single lines where staff or tablet block working is in use.

 

The bars on the windows aren't there to stop people falling out, they're to protect the window from being broken if the the hoop containing the staff or tablet swings back as it's caught, either by the crew member in the adjacent window, or the token exchange apparatus.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

That would explain why all the motors on the Ome Line have bars, but the ones in more urban areas do not.

[Kiha66]

It appears that the bars are possibly called タブレットプロテクター, which seems to translate to tablet protector.

[velotrain]

I'm only somewhat acquainted with token exchanging, and not at all familiar with the various types used.  The static photos I had seen suggest that the ring is passed from control/signal personnel to the train crew, usually with the crew member catching it in the crook of their arm.

 

Watching a few videos, I have seen it dropped a few times, but not slammed into the carbody of the engine.  However, given the proximity of the two windows on the ED16, I can see the potential for a poorly handled transition to result in a broken window.  Even with the bars installed, the frequency of this window being open may be related to this.  The variety we see in the number of bars and their spacing could easily be related to the variety of equipment, procedures, and skills on varied railway lines / segments.

 

Thanks to all who have contributed theories on this question, and I think we finally have an agreed-upon answer.