Tomix track seller in the US?

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

You didn't read my posts above carefully, I pointed them out.

 

Mokei imports was around for 40 years. They were a small distributor of Japanese trains mainly in saint Louis. He had either first level distributor deals or direct to manufacturer deals in Japan (his wife was Japanese and had family there that helped in setting up these more unusual export deals). He brought over greenmax, Tomix and some microace. His main business was structures as there was some good crossover but he usually had a wide assortment of trains but only one or two of each. He could do structures at a wholesale price that LHS could price them at Japanese street prices! Trains were like 10-20% over Japanese SRP, but I expect that it was due to the small volumes he ordered those into. He also pretty much tried to force you to buy from a LHS thru him if there was one locally that had an account with him or would offer to talk to the LHS to set one up! Only if no other way (pre Internet days) to do it locally would he sometimes sell direct. He only closed as he retired in his 80s and the business was not great to sell as an operation. Many LHS moaned when mokei closed as they did a good business over the years of greenmax and Tomix buildings as they were economical and different and had a good little market.

 

BT trains basically did the same about the time mokei was retiring but they set up a us shop that exported their own stock from Japan. They were ordering tomytec thru mid level distributors in japan. This only worked as bob had lived in Japan some and had some friends there that acted as agents to get the deals in place and act as shipping agents. He was bringing over tomytec and stocking it and was selling at 10-20% above Japanese street price very effectively. Many of us were going to him to support a us retailer and you could get stuff at EMS speeds thru priority mail at way below the EMS prices and he was dedicated to our niche and doing well. Sadly he unexpectedly passed away and that took out the business. While he was not a wholesaler/distributor he was getting prices low when sourcing from mid level distributors in japan, he did not get a direct from manufacturer or large volume price like walthers is most likely getting.

 

So my point is there is something off when walthers sets up a direct from tomytec deal to "break" into the us market and they set the SRP 50-100% higher than the Japanese prices (and Japan tends to have multiple distributor levels between manufacturer and consumer). Others have found ways to be competitive importing and selling Japanese trains in the us at much closer to the Japanese SRP and have been sucessful.

 

EMS is not a factor in this equation as its always been there as a shipping option and if anything it's gotten a bit slower over the last decade, not faster (not sure where in the chain it's slowed down but over all it's not hit order and it's here 2-3 days later, now it's 3-5 usually). It's pricing also just went up so even with the high priority mail shipping rates here in the us it's not as attractive as it was.

 

I agree with you other things like Kato I do buy locally as much as I can as there are reasonable distribution networks for Kato in the USA at good prices. Of course it will never be that I can get all my Kato trains tat way, but the more important pick up locally like structures and track it's there already and thriving thanks to katousa and sane wholesale pricing and distributors.

 

I just think your are not thinking this thru with the walthers/tomytec deal. How can we hope to encourage and buy half the product we could at the walthers SRP? Walthers has never been known to roll back wholesale prices so even if it were sucessful and a good ordering levels for tomytec came thru I seriously doubt these high SRP would ever get rolled back.

 

Going to LHS and saying there is an opportunity to sell tomytec at a huge markup is not doing them a favor at all.myes they could make some money if there is enough market here to want that stuff, but it's a very small niche market to sell to and if you only source (walthers) has jacked the SRP 50-100% up on you from what it is in Japan they are screwed. Until they can get it at closer to a Japanese SRP it jsut is not worth it. Tomytec stuff is a great value at Japanese SRP, but not at 50-100% over that. The only things they can hope to sell well are a few things like the customized us 1/160 motorized bus system where walthers is the only option really,mso folks will pay the price as its super unique.

 

One thing also not mentioned is this all started with track and track is hard to retail as you need to keep a very complete inventory and the pieces move at very different rates. This means a bit investment in inventory and it's a lot of keeping track and reordering as to make it effective with Joe needs a 140 you want to have it hanging there. Well to sell enough you need to have a market and with fine track in the US it's a tiny market currently of a handful of Japanese Modelers. To increase that you need to get out there and publicize it and compete with your competitors like Kato, atlas and Bachmann. While fine track is probably the best looking and most versatile product on the market there is zero marketing or even exposure here in the states. Tomytec has showed up at walthers at a few national shows with a small loop but that's not going to get the market started, not will it's street price here in the us being 2x the competitors. Walthers is showing a prerry Throw onto this the general disdain a lot of the mainstream model train hobby has for sectional track (we see this bigotry a lot at shows and Ttrak gets it a lot). These are all detriments to the LHS that they have little control over. Also walthers is know for liking to do large orders once a year with manufacturers and when stuff runs out they are well know for being very slow to restock, waiting for the next large order even if the manufacturer has it in stock to fill in. This can screw a LHS with track when a customer wants a oos piece.

 

Sorry Inobu I just think your logic is flawed when it comes to pushing LHS and Modelers to buy tomytec thru walthers (and it's their only us option now). Doing that is not going to grow the market or get more coming in as the market is just not there for the LHS any ROI and they are at the mercy of walthers totally.

 

Jeff

[inobu]

The OP wrote, "I don't want to order from Japan, due to the time it takes for them to get here."

 

Jeff pointed out that it would be cheaper to order from Japan - with possibly faster shipping.

 

Walther's isn't going to close (say anytime before 2166), and they likely won't stop distributing Tomytec [sic] products.

 

I don't know what the numbers are for the membership growth on this forum, but I'm not sure that can be categorized as a "shift".

I am quite certain that the percentage of US modelers doing Japanese N-scale is less than 1%, and that isn't likely to change much in the next decade.

 

Just what benefit do you see Walther's providing the "JDM" modeler?

Why does everyone continue to think I am alluding to some kind of huge "shift". I am saying that this forum has enough member ordering on a continual bases to support the supply line that Walthers has opened. For example:  If Walthers and MTS can get to a point that they can compete with the current prices then its supply chain has a chance. If the members here feeds that supply chain then it has a chance. Other than that the bulk of the U.S. modeling market can careless about Tomytec or any other Japanese manufacture other than Kato. This forum has enough member to support a small supply chain collectively. Not equal to a national level but a small one. it is about investing on both sides. 

 

Some forums form "group buys" that increase the order numbers in order to create buying power. This is insurance for the suppler to get a ROI on the transaction. If you guys cannot see the buying strength in numbers then I cannot say much after this.

 

 

 

Inobu

[inobu]

Inobu,

 

Sorry Inobu I just think your logic is flawed when it comes to pushing LHS and Modelers to buy tomytec thru walthers (and it's their only us option now). Doing that is not going to grow the market or get more coming in as the market is just not there for the LHS any ROI and they are at the mercy of walthers totally.

 

Jeff

Jeff,

 

So you are saying that Tomytech and Walther's has wasted time and effort trying to establish this supply chain? and they have no chance of surviving.

 

Because I'm saying that MTS or Hobbylinc should tell their Walther's sales person that there is a small customer base (this forum) out there but you need to modify your price point if you want to move the product and grow your supply chain. I am also saying that the members should pay attention to those site because if the opportunity to grow the chain arises use it. It could lead to a second option

 

With that said. If you (members) don't want to even look at the remote possibility of dealing with them (walthers) then don't. continue to us the suppler you have. Order and enjoy.

 

I'm sure the OP can see why there are very few option available now.

 

This discussion is based on the practices of SCM (Supply Chain Management)

 

Inobu

 

 

The worst option that any person can have is called "the only" one.

 

I'm done another horse turned to glue.

 

I've learned my lesson. really.

no really, really I have.

Edited September 11, 2016 by inobu

[velotrain]

Why does everyone continue to think I am alluding to some kind of huge "shift".

 

Perhaps because you wrote, "The growth of membership on this forum reflects the shift from U.S. modeling to JDM modeling."

 

Actually - I strongly suspect more American N-scale guys model European railways than model Japanese ones.

 

 

Just as knowledgeable modelers won't buy overpriced equipment from Newhall Station, there's no reason to buy overpriced Tomix track from Walther's.  Even if every American on this forum bought exclusively from Walther's, as Jeff said they wouldn't lower their prices.  They'd use the extra profit as a bonus for "the purchaser in Walters who went out on a limb".

 

 

>  "Once again we have an opportunity to become a customer base for a retailer who can let walthers know that there is another customer base out there but they have an alternative."

 

We do have that retailer - in spades.  They're known as Loco 1 Hobby, Model Train Plus, Hobby Search, AmiAmi, Plaza Japan, and several others.  I don't know where you buy your trains, but many of us appreciate the personalized service provided by the first two - good luck finding that at Walther's.

 

[bill937ca]

Mokei imports was around for 40 years. They were a small distributor of Japanese trains mainly in saint Louis. He had either first level distributor deals or direct to manufacturer deals in Japan (his wife was Japanese and had family there that helped in setting up these more unusual export deals). He brought over greenmax, Tomix and some microace. His main business was structures as there was some good crossover but he usually had a wide assortment of trains but only one or two of each. He could do structures at a wholesale price that LHS could price them at Japanese street prices! Trains were like 10-20% over Japanese SRP, but I expect that it was due to the small volumes he ordered those into. He also pretty much tried to force you to buy from a LHS thru him if there was one locally that had an account with him or would offer to talk to the LHS to set one up! Only if no other way (pre Internet days) to do it locally would he sometimes sell direct. He only closed as he retired in his 80s and the business was not great to sell as an operation. Many LHS moaned when mokei closed as they did a good business over the years of greenmax and Tomix buildings as they were economical and different and had a good little market.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, you are living in the past.  Model trains are more expensive all across the spectrum.  You can't do a Mokei now demanding a SASE for a price list. Knowledgeable modelers can find models online within a matter of days, maybe even minutes on the internet.The classic small LHS can't survive against mega stores, internet dealers and low overhead train shows.  Much of the success of an enterprise like Mokei was on being a specialist with items no own else had or had detailed knowledge of. Today you face an monopoly auction site charging listing fees, sales commissions and wait til the eBay Global Shipping Program reaches Japan and all shipments are by courier with eBay taking.up to 9% of the shipping payment on auctions, and  up to 11% of your "buy now" shipping payments, plus 3% for Paypal. Not only that but Kader controls at least half of model train production in the world with its own Bachmann factories and Sanda Kan (which in the recent past was mainly producing Hornby items--which I believe is also Kader owned).  The last golden age of model trains was probably prior to the 2008 meltdown. That ended a boom that when new ventures appeared regularly in China.  It seems the Japanese industry escaped this meltdown. Gone since those days are K-Line, Weaver, Yat-Ming, Kawaii, Corgi Classics, Atlas (almost because of hardship with Chinese production facilities), Astro Craft, Ready Made Trains, Life Like, Model Power, AHM and others I can't remember right now.It was not only a shake out of brand lines but toy and model factories in China. Much like a real estate market gone bad.  In North America there are fewer dealers, usually mega-dealers on the east coast with a store and an attached warehouse--M. B.. Klein (modeltrainstuff), Nicholas Smith Trains, Charles Ro Model Trains, Grzyboski's Train Store and The Western Depot-- and big operating costs.  We are very lucky there is any price differential on ordering from Japan.

Edited September 11, 2016 by bill937ca

[velotrain]

Jeff, you are living in the past.  

 

I'd have to say he was recounting the past, rather than living in it.

 

 

> We are very lucky there is any price differential on ordering from Japan.

 

Amen

[inobu]

I'm done another horse turned to glue.

 

I've learned my lesson. really.

no really, really I have.

[cteno4]

Jeff, you are living in the past.  Model trains are more expensive all across the spectrum.  You can't do a Mokei now demanding a SASE for a price list. Knowledgeable modelers can find models online within a matter of days, maybe even minutes on the internet.The classic small LHS can't survive against mega stores, internet dealers and low overhead train shows.  Much of the success of an enterprise like Mokei was on being a specialist with items no own else had or had detailed knowledge of. Today you face an monopoly auction site charging listing fees, sales commissions and wait til the eBay Global Shipping Program reaches Japan and all shipments are by courier with eBay taking.[/size]up to 9% of the shipping payment on auctions, and  up to 11% of your "buy now" shipping payments, plus 3% for Paypal. Not only that but Kader controls at least half of model train production in the world with its own Bachmann factories and Sanda Kan (which in the recent past was mainly producing Hornby items--which I believe is also Kader owned).  The last golden age of model trains was probably prior to the 2008 meltdown. That ended a boom that when new ventures appeared regularly in China.  It seems the Japanese industry escaped this meltdown. Gone since those days are K-Line, Weaver, Yat-Ming, Kawaii, Corgi Classics, Atlas (almost because of hardship with Chinese production facilities), Astro Craft, Ready Made Trains, Life Like, Model Power, AHM and others I can't remember right now.It was not only a shake out of brand lines but toy and model factories in China. Much like a real estate market gone bad.  In North America there are fewer dealers, usually mega-dealers on the east coast with a store and an attached warehouse--M. B.. Klein (modeltrainstuff), Nicholas Smith Trains, Charles Ro Model Trains, Grzyboski's Train Store and The Western Depot-- and big operating costs.  We are very lucky there is any price differential on ordering from Japan.

Bill,

 

No I'm not living in the past jsut recounting history. Mokei' model was working still up to the time he closed it. It would have continued to work as he could make the wholesale prices here at a level that us LHS could effectively sell Japanese products here in the us at close to Japanese prices. He also kept a good constant flow and his dealers were happy that it make take a couple of months to restock if he ran out (and he would do the special orders for them as well). His kind of wholesaling was very viable to the small LHS to be in niche markets. It would of course die out eventually maybe as the LHS die and all that is left are the mega stores, but probably could work with the mega stores as well. But in the end once the LHS is gone and everyone is buying directly the megastores probably would not as its a tiny niche market and not worth the trouble for them.

 

The Sase was jsut some old history I threw in. The last 15+'years I've been doing Japanese trains he was operating like a wholesaler only and not doing direct sales and routing all the business thru his retailers if at all possible.

 

I think you are missing my point as I agree with all you say above but it has little to do with this discussion. It's the new tomytec/walthers deal is what I think just makes no sense and is a bad thing for LHS to try to use to get business in the us. Trying to get folks to pay 50-100% more for a product they can easier every year direct from japan is just not going to work for the LHS, especially on a broad stock item like track especially. Just not decent business model there. Tiny market, niche market, no exposure, price way past the value, price 2x the competing products, one distributor. My point with mokei is that he got decent prices from Japanese distibutors to do import wholesaling in the us up until he closed to retire years back. Why can't walthers do as good with a volume deal directly with then manufacturer. Not a lot with the Japanese markets has changed I that time, like you said Japan missed a lot of the bubble bursting of the rest of the hobby. The deal does not make sense and I don't see it making sense to a LHS or to us to support as a buy local as I don't see us having the volume with our tiny niche market to send enough busiess the LHS to do well with the price point and inventory demands.

 

Like Inobu the horse is now in the glue factory as We've beaten it to death here. I am only so rabid on the point as I just feel that the walthers/tomytec deal pricing is just bad for the hobby, it won't help anyone except tomytec and or walthers getting some very large margins and won't grow the hobby,mbut could damage it as one of the top things newbies say about Japanese trains to us at show is Japanese trains are expensive arent they? No one has come up with any reason walthers direct to manufacture deal should require such high prices and there is evidence from recent history others could beat it with much smaller operations.

 

Jeff

[nah00]

 

 

Mokei imports was also able to bring over tomix, Kato and greenmax at prices from japanese distributors to have a successful business (like 35+ years) and get wholesale here in the states so shops could then sell at close to srp and with larger or heavier items it was cheaper as ship from japan for them was expensive. Sadly his retirement ended the business as it was impossible to transfer all his contacts with distributors to a new owner. Mokei was great at getting what you wanted (took a while as things came in containers every month or two) thru your lhs nicely. catelogs were actually cheaper than japanese street price and cheap book rate shipping w/in the us. i think mokei was smart and cut his margin off or way down on the catalogues as he realized it only got folks wanting more! smart man. he never got to the point of bringing trains over in bulk so they were like 10-20% over japanese street here, but he had a wide range with one or two each to let folks experiment.

 

 

While I never had the pleasure of meeting Lee (the owner of Mokei Imports) before he passed away he did run a good business. I also believe his wife played a large part in it (especially in breaking the language/culture barrier). He did SOME bulk (my LHS still has some of it but it is older and marked up more than 30-40%) and a lot of it shelfwarms. Of course I'm the beneficiary of this since whenever I buy anything I generally get something for free. The truth of the matter though is even with a beautiful 1/80 Kato Hayabusa sitting out in the open it's next to impossible to generate interest in Japanese trains. Any time I tell people what I model they just say 'that's neat' and pay it no more mind. Not even a 16 car bullet train speeding around a layout gets a rise. Of course Pittsburgh was the junction of a lot of railways so I see a lot more of the traditional 40s-70s lines here (and I'm trying to keep myself from buying a Union Railroad MP15 and some cushion coil cars) than foreign stuff. 

[cteno4]

Yes she did! They went on many trips back to Japan to set up distributor relationships and visit family. I only talked with him over the phone, quite a character, but a nice chap and all the LHS folks I ever talked to the knew him really liked him and the business they did. He seemed to always try to be as helpful as possible to the LHS and keep his margins down so things would be competitive on the shelf, but it was odder stuff so there always seemed to be a small pile of stuff that just did not move at a particular store. But many shops did a brisk business with him on particular models and they were bummed when he retired as no other distribution options then (still none for greenmax). One LHS that was always at the Timonium shows said it was part of his own decision to retire as his business with mokei items was a very steady and decent chunk of his business along with special orders with mokei.

 

Jeff

[nah00]

I'm lucky in that I'm the only one that shows any interest in the leftover Greenmax items he brought over to my LHS. Got a whole mess of the concrete railroad fences for $1 each for the pack. I'll still find stuff tucked in nooks and crannies too and my LHS does deal a lot with Kato so I do get some Japanese vehicles and just about all the buildings. I'll buy non-switch Unitrack from there but I had to start buying my switches from HS - once you're buying so many of them it just makes sense. Every once in a while at a train show I'll find a good deal on a variation set but not often.

 

My problem with switches is I see no reason why I should pay $32 for a wye track that costs $21 in Japan and I can just throw in with a monthly order. Same thing with a double crossover, it's a $25 difference. 

[brill27mcb]

I live in the past -- every now and then I buy a used item or catalog at a train show or online, and it arrives with the little "Mokei Imports" sticker on it. Seeing that sticker makes me smile to myself! That guy really brought into the U.S. a good variety and quantity of Japanese model rail items over the years, when nobody else even had the thought to do it ...

 

Rich K.

[nah00]

I've bought (and sometimes overpaid) for more than a few second-hand items just because they had that sticker on them.