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The problem of long trains and not enough space


kvp

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Nah00, your setup is around 1.5 meters long, even without any curves. That's nice, but rather long for a small layout and stopping within a few mm is not easy. This is the basic problem with long trains and using long straight stations. But it's good to know the curvature of the siding adds just enough length to squeeze in.

 

 

You can chop off another 248 mm but then your're left with a station that will probably only fit 4 cars. It won't look too bad though, I think Tomix platforms are only about that long if you go with the basic setup. 

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I've found a pretty nice space saving measure, that could help add station track length for 2 more cars to a 3 track station. It's possible to use the Tomix R280 Y turnouts, that need around half the length than the usual long straight turnouts. The platform arrangement could be one side platform and one island or two side platforms with an express track in the middle. Both are pretty typical in Japan.

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Hello,

 

To the OP: my answer is to shorten the long consists to 8-cars (the longest that will fit in my stations) and also shorten the shorter consists.  Ie:

 

16 sars becomes 8

8 cars becomes 6

6 becomes 4

4 becomes 3.

 

That way, the relationship between long and short consists is somewhat maintained.

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To the OP: my answer is to shorten the long consists to 8-cars (the longest that will fit in my stations) 

That's ok, as long as you could fit 8 cars into your station. I was aiming for a limit of 7 car sets (or 6+locomotive), but still find it very hard to fit long enough platforms into a smaller space. How large are your stations and what track layout do you use?

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Another way to limit train lengths is the size of a single bookcase. This results in sets between 3 and 7 cars. Most of my prototypically longer than 7 car sets are in sets of 6 or 7 cars, depending on the expansion packs. This is usually 3+4, 3+2+2, 3+3 or 4+2, 4+3. I try to be prototypical if i can, so i try to find set combinations that were 5 to 7 cars in real life and ran in double or similar to form longer trains. For example many 103 and 205 series ran connected with a shorter and a longer set and it's possible to model one set correctly. I try to avoid compression where it looks strange, like leaving out the only pantograph car or its married pair with the main compressor. This gives an average train length of 4 to 7 cars for most of my JNR/JRE sets. Turns out, having a large enough layout for 7 cars is harder than it sounded originally as N scale is not as small as it seems.

Edited by kvp
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That's ok, as long as you could fit 8 cars into your station. I was aiming for a limit of 7 car sets (or 6+locomotive), but still find it very hard to fit long enough platforms into a smaller space. How large are your stations and what track layout do you use?

 

Hello Mr kvp,

 

My mainline stations (2 off) are long enough for 8-car consists.  My branch line stations (currently 2 off) are long enough for 4 car trains, but look better with 3 or 2 cars.  I am using Tomix track and stations.   A Tomix platform module is 280mm, which is roughly 2 cars.  My layout dimensions: 2.8m x 1.68m.

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My layout dimensions: 2.8m x 1.68m.

Do you have a trackplan or an overhead photo? 4 stations are great and i would really like to understand the geometry and the operations on your layout.
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I don't know if this revision will resolve kvp's objections, but I'd like to think that it does a lot to address them. 

 

First, I've shortened all platform in response to his note that the outer corner of cars coming around the curve would strike the platform.

 

I've also done something more radical to deal with this issue, by using compound  easements on the station side of the layout.  The best way to illustrate this is to list the curved pieces on each track into the station - starting with the curved turnout, and using the radius on the appropriate leg of the turnout for each station track.  The outer two station tracks should hold a 7-car train at the platform, while the inner two will take 6-car trains on those platforms.

 

4th (outermost) track:  317, 354, 354, 391

 

3rd track:  280, 280, 317, 354

 

2nd track:  317, 317, 354, 391

 

1st (innermost) track:  280, 280, 317, 354

 

I'd like to think that these easements - while short, will do a lot toward "straightening" out the consist - especially trains of shorter cars, as it enters the station area.

 

I've also done this somewhat on the bottom of the layout, with a 280 after the turnout, but using 317 into the straight on each end.

 

I've had to reposition the entrance to the yard to allow the 317 radius, and have also added two additional storage tracks related to this, for a total of eight.

 

This is intended for someone with a lot of 6-7-8 car non-Shinkansen passenger trains who wants a long major station, but in a minimal space.  The center can be used for more yard tracks, a tram / bus line, or freight / industrial trackage.  With some effort, you should be able to locate the yard in any corner, in either orientation.

 

I realize the station doesn't have the traditional Japanese straight approaches, but that's asking for too much of a layout of this size.  If you want straighter approaches, you'd have to limit yourself to 3-4 car trains - if that.

 

I also realize that there are a lot of short sections of track, but hopefully the reason for that is obvious.

 

 

gallery_941_192_159656.jpg

 

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Velotrain, a small problem with the designs above are the inner loop platforms as many cars will hit the middle island platform when going in from the curves, so that would mean shorter platforms there and that would make the outer loop facing side shorter too.

I just discovered that there is an alternate real life solution to the problem that kvp describes, and it could make an interesting mini-scene on your layout if faced with this situation ;-)

 

http://jnr.blog.shinobi.jp/Entry/1011/

 

Here is the translated text from the first two images:

 

It is JR Mishima Station No. 1 Home which the direct train of JR Tokaido Line and Izukayama Railway Shinbu Line draws. There is a branch to the Shizuo line in the middle of the home. The left side is Mishima Station Line 9 of Izu-Hakone Railroad.

 

Because of the branch on the way home, the home is also rounded, and the braille block is also curved at the same time.

 

 

I had a pre-existing interest in Line 9 of Izu-Hakone Railroad at Mishima Station due to the second photo on this blog - the platform details have changed, but after looking at the station in satellite view I believe that it's the same location / orientation.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://sirius501.blog68.fc2.com/blog-entry-1024.html&prev=search

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