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Robert46

Car Moving System for Smaller Vehicles

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Robert46

I was wondering if besides N scale moving bus system, is there any model for N scale smaller car system? ie. smaller truck, cars or even motorbike etc? anything which is smaller than bus..

 

I think it will be interesting to see how those small vehicles can run together with the buses.. from the video of Miniatur Wunderland which I am sure in HO scale, the modellers can build car system for the smaller vehicles. But in N scale I think it won't be that easy..

 

 

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chriswilliams115

should be somewhat feasible for small trucks and possibly even vans? depends how much of the bus chassis is actually require and what can be disposed of to make it fit.

cars would be a real struggle though. give it 5 or 10 years though as miniaturisation continues and we'll get motors small and cheap enough to be worth it.

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Kabutoni

Technically it should be possible with motors that can be found in mobile phones (vibration functions). I have a few and they're smaller than the regular Tomytec vehicles. The price of these motors is also just 100 yen or so per piece, so that is not the issue.

 

PHOTO_20160204_115910.jpg

 

However, you will also need a power cell (a decent capacitor could do as well), a steering mechanism and a little bit of electronics (at least an on-off switch and a start-stop mechanism). I can see this becoming a thing, but not any time soon commercially. It's a fun idea to play with, but I need more experience in 3D printing and so on to start to develop something crazy like this.

Edited by Toni Babelony
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cteno4

problem is battery size there when you get tiny! there was a chap that made a remote control vw bus and station wagon in n scale. problem is it had like 5 minutes of battery time...

 

 

 

 

getting down to n scale vans you end up needing really tiny motors (but those are now down to only a few mm in size now!) as well and i expect some issues of traction like t scale does. 

 

there was an n scale car system that had a chain drive below the streets and used magnets to draw them along. a company in holland also does a similar system you can use for bicycles (with articulated figures and bikes in ho scale).

 

3D printing may be the key here if it can be done at this size to make the steering mech and gear/axle and chassis. but again i think the limiting factor will be the battery size. there are some super caps down to tiny sizes bit again probably only a few minutes of driving.

 

some parts

 

http://www.shop.kkpmo.com/login.php?language=en

 

http://www.micromo.com/products/brushless-dc-motors/brushless-dc-micromotors

 

one issue with these is that they tend to be very high speed and need down gearing.

 

jeff

Edited by cteno4
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Kabutoni

That's some crazy engineering right there! Awesome!

 

The thing is with capacitors is that they can be charged quickly, so that might be feasible as an option to power tiny cars. If the vehicle follows a standard path (e.g. via the Tomytec moving bus system), it only needs a charging point for a few seconds to be able to run again.

 

With a guided system, there won't be a need for a second motor for the steering (like in the VW bus Jeff posted), so the whole mechanism could potentially fit in a sedan body. The steering mechanism also needn't be complicated, since it could be done with one pivoting point on the front axle. It might not be the prettiest solution, but the simpler, the better.

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cteno4

magnet might also be enough to steer the car w/o turning the wheels as well giving downward pressure to get traction!

 

yeah charging stations. could have them at the stop locations. 

 

the stop sensor and circuitry will really need to be miniaturized though. also the cap shape will be tough, there are some smd super caps that maybe you could brick up in the space available. problem with scaling volume is that you are now dealing with 1/8th the volume you had in HO scale to work with as well as getting small...

 

maybe a micro printed circuit board that acts as the chassis to attach all the parts to.

 

Hey they did t scale trains!

 

jeff

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HantuBlauLOL

just 3d print the steering and driving mech..

 

the problem is the electronics, there are no small enough ICs to fit there..

 

edit: that VW blew my mind.

Edited by HantuBlauLOL

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cteno4

The ic itself is pretty tiny, it's the housing for heat dissipation and leads that takes up most of the room in traditional sized ic chips. Micro ones are made like those used in dcc decoders, more and more many of the traditional ic chos are made in the micro smd versions as equipment shrinks. The little smd ic chips are only a few mm in size!

 

Jeff

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kvp

One japanese modeller had a supercap system with two contact wipers and the steering wire in the middle. Cap and motor only, no circuits. To start the car, you have to place it on a charger strip along the road. Stopping is possible on a charger strip by draining the cap. Recharging or topping off while moving is also done on such strips.

 

Imho the steering mech can come from a bus, also needs a motor and gearing to the back wheels and a larger capacity small size cap to run it.

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cteno4

The steering mech is quite delicate and downsizing to a car at n scale will be a challenge. I ran the bus steering mech in the faller bus past a fantastic 3D guy a number of years ago and he was concerned how smoothly the parts would work at that size and for the number of joints for the bus. Magnet size and swing will be an issue as you will only have about 7mm between the wheels to play with for both steering arms, tie rod, and magnet arm. height is an issue as well as the magnet alone is 1mm tall. I wonder if a stronger magnet in the front could keep it on course w.o a steering mech as it would be pretty light weight. Of course I don't think these may make it across train crossing!

 

So if no circuit in the cars, how did he keep it for taking off as the cap was recharged? Does all the current just go into the cap until charged and then once topped off then it could flow to the motor? You would need a circuit on the recharge station to drain the cap, then once drained do the charge. Sounds like this would work well, just have some intersections that it needs to stop at. Then control the signals and stations appropriately with the traffic pattern.

 

I like the idea the chassis could be done as a printed circuit board (even the flexible kind at that size as it would be pretty stiff and easy to stiffen more if needed) that could be laser cut for shape and steering mech area needs as well as holes drilled.

 

Jeff

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kvp

 

So if no circuit in the cars, how did he keep it for taking off as the cap was recharged? Does all the current just go into the cap until charged and then once topped off then it could flow to the motor? You would need a circuit on the recharge station to drain the cap, then once drained do the charge. Sounds like this would work well, just have some intersections that it needs to stop at. Then control the signals and stations appropriately with the traffic pattern.

Actually the cap can be drained and recharged relatively fast, limited only by the current source. If recharging section has ground on both poles, then it will drain the cap, if it has ground and power, then it will charge it. This can be controlled by a single switch, selecting between ground (stop) and power (charge and go). The length of the section should be as long to have enough time to drain and then charge the cap. (stop and charge distances). If you have a continous loop of charge sections, then you essentially have a magnet guided slotcar system. (intersections have to be metal free to be crossable and the two strips would look bad if laid continously)

 

A simple steering mech has the wheels on a fixed bar and a central rotational point (upside looking T) with the magnet glued in front of this piece. The wheels can rotate freely and the T can rotate freely in the hole, turned around by the magnet in front of it. Another, more complex solution uses an L shaped trailing wheel mounting like on a shopping cart and the magnet is fixed inside the front of the car, so it could pull the front wherever the wire goes and steer the wheels at the same time. Both solutions can be combined with a 3V single cell lithium battery in the middle and a small 3V buzzer motor turning the back axle.

 

For a cheap stop solution, it's possible to add a tiny magnet to a brass contact and have this magnet pulled down or pushed up with an under the road magnet to open the power connection. No electronics here, so no speed control or timed stop.

 

ps: N scale moving trucks are available from Faller. They are very expensive compared to the Tomix buses and only know the stop on magnet function, but at least they are a ready to run product.

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gerryo

Just reading the mail here Guys.  I have to use hearing aids, which operate on batteries.  The batteries for mine are (app.) 8mm dia,  by 5mm thick.  They are 1.45 volts.  They have a CDN designation of #13.  Come in multiples of 4, priced by my hearing specialist at $2.00/4.

 

Does this help.

 

gerryo

Edited by gerryo

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HantuBlauLOL

how much mAh?

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Robert46

Wow.. this talk has been so serious.. :) I really enjoyed reading the above detailed informations.. Definitely this will be a new challenging project to work for..

 

With remote control car, it looks great but personally I choose the guided system like the tomytec did for their buses.. so we can be focused on controlling our train.. :) 

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Robert46

https://youtu.be/4OPAA_A5iwc

 

By the way, seeing this video.. it looks like a slot car but in N scale.. need to know the secret of it. This one looks cool..

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kvp

Actually i have a Tomy N scale slotcar set from when i was small (80ies). We played so much with it that all the spare pickups are completly ground down. (and i can't get new ones) Mine was the set with the red sportcar with spoilers and a more aerodynamic silver one.

 

Ps: if anyone knows where and how to get replacement contact strips for these, please let me know

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beakaboy

reading the comments under the video. The designer states he used Lego for the chain mechanism under the track with 2 small motors driving the chains. The chains have pins attached that the cars sit over in order to be pulled around, but at too high a speed, they come off pins. very clever!

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Robert46

Actually i have a Tomy N scale slotcar set from when i was small (80ies). We played so much with it that all the spare pickups are completly ground down. (and i can't get new ones) Mine was the set with the red sportcar with spoilers and a more aerodynamic silver one.

 

Wow, when was the release year of that slotcar and are the cars prototypical? wonder why they stop producing this as I am sure it will still be profitable if they continue making..

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kvp

Actually i found a picture on a forum under the title 'mystery slot car'. I'm 99% sure this is the red car i had. It's a Nissan Skyline GTR. (i have to check during the weekend if the set is still where i left it a decade ago in my old room at my mom's place)

post-1969-0-77691800-1454670933.jpg

ps: the car on the picture is missing the roof decals and the contact springs on the bottom, also it seems a bit larger than i rembember...

post-1969-0-77691800-1454670933_thumb.jpg

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cteno4

Looks like closer to HO scale.

 

Jeff

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kvp

Quite possible... Does anyone know where to get spare parts for this system? (and what is its name exactly?)

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cteno4

I have a friend who is a slot car collector, can you pull together everything you know about it and I can ask him

 

Jeff

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Tyler B

You could always look at the Magnorail system

 

Unfortunately the little cyclist isn't available in N but they do car sliders for N gauge vehicles. It would be tricky to combine this system with the moving bus but I'm sure something could be done...

 

https://www.magnorail.com/site/

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katoftw

You could always look at the Magnorail system

 

Unfortunately the little cyclist isn't available in N but they do car sliders for N gauge vehicles. It would be tricky to combine this system with the moving bus but I'm sure something could be done...

 

https://www.magnorail.com/site/

That is awesome.  Drill a hole in the bottom of the Tomytec buses and you can have the same moving vehicles/bus.  And boats!

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cteno4

Only problem is all your vehicles start and stop at the same time. They also ain't cheap, but are cool!

 

A friend got one recently to try out with cars, not heard how it's worked. I'll poke him

 

Jeff

Edited by cteno4

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