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tridentalx

Hakone Tozan line in N Gauge

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tridentalx

Since a visit to Japan (and .. to be honest ... playing Densha De Go) I have been determined to make a start on a small layout based on the Hakone-Tozan line near Tokyo. I picked up a Tomix 2 car EMU so that should have been the incentive but a year later I am still to make a start.

 

However, having found the amazingly easy to use SCARM layout planning software, I tried to plot a layout that incorporated at least one of the switchbacks whilst fitting onto a 6 x 2 (1800mm x 600mm) baseboard.

 

Here's the plan and a 3d of the same. Some of the track will be in tunnel but I haven't mastered that bit of SCARM yet.

 

Screen%20Shot%202015-12-19%20at%2015.07.

 

Screen%20Shot%202015-12-19%20at%2015.08.

 

The starting station at Hakone-Yuomoto will be represented only by a single platform with perhaps a Romance Car set nosing in somehow.

 

I'd like to represent this bridge too but that may be too optimistic.

 

Tozan_ALLEGRA_Hakone-yumoto_80permillage

 

Haven't decided yet whether the station at the top will represent Gora or one of the intermediate stations.

 

The three levels are at 0cm, 8cm and 16cm but that may be a much too much of a gradient. Trials with the Tomix unit will follow shortly. The curve on the upper level will be a hidden siding if the station isn't Gora.

 

All of the track has been delivered except for the points and the baseboard wood will be purchased this week for construction over Christmas. I might make the lower track a complete circuit so I can run the occasional tail chaser.

 

Here's a link to a photo of one of the switchbacks.

 

http://www.otenko.com/gallery3/index.php/rest/data/12540?size=full

 

 

 

Comments / suggestions welcome.

 

 

Paul

 

 

Edited by tridentalx
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kvp

It's a nice and doable layout. Many years ago i had a similar but smaller project that never got fully sceniced. I started at ground level with a middle station (Miyanoshita), then a switchback and a bridge at the back. I had two problems: modemo trains couldn't reliably navigate the 10 degrees ramps and the R103 curves and i didn't leave enough space for the vegetation between the hillside and the tracks.

 

If you want a tailchaser make it a separate loop with an island platform between the lower end (maybe connect them with a turnout). This would allowa full romancecar set to circle around and the station layout is very similar, except it’s not a through station for the romancecars)

 

Ps: tunnels in scarm are easy, just select the pieces and press tunnel on the toolbar

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railsquid

Any reason why you're using Unitrack? Tomix track would probably be more flexible, especially with things like double slips.

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velotrain

> Any reason why you're using Unitrack? Tomix track would probably be more flexible, especially with things like double slips.

 

Another reason to use Tomix is TCS, which would allow you to automate the run from the bottom station to the upper siding.

 

> If you want a tailchaser make it a separate loop

 

I generally agree with kvp, as a separate loop would allow you to stage "meets" for passenger transfers.  However I'm sure you're trying not to crowd the available space.  One possibility might be to expand the layout width to 30" (750).

 

> The starting station at Hakone-Yuomoto will be represented only by a single platform

 

Widening the layout would allow a second track here.

 

I trust you would have a tunnel on the left end where the tracks in the 3D rendering "stick out like a sore thumb".

 

> The curve on the upper level will be a hidden siding if the station isn't Gora.

 

I'm not familiar with the proto details, but you don't show any sort of storage or shop facility, so instead of hiding this track, I'd make other use of it.

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cteno4

I seem to remeber seeing a storage track in the hakone right next to one of the platforms that had some MOW equipment on it (I think a ballast tamper) my last visit there. I remeber thinking it odd, but seemed like not gobs of space around so they just put it where convenient.

 

Jeff

Edited by cteno4

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tridentalx

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I seem to remeber seeing a storage track in the hakone right next to one of the platforms that had some MOW equipment on it (I think a ballast tamper) my last visit there. I remeber thinking it odd, but seemed like not gobs of space around so they just put it where convenient.

Jeff

 

If you mean at Gora, yes there is a siding for engineer's vehicles. I tried to post a photo but the forum wasn't playing nice. I should try and model it.

 

Any reason why you're using Unitrack? Tomix track would probably be more flexible, especially with things like double slips.

 

Only because (a) I had some Kato track already and (b) I didn't think of using anything else. It is almost all sitting on my workbench so I don't think I can go back now.

 

24 inches does constrain the availability of space for a proper station at the front and I probably do need to fix that. I was hoping to get a 6x4 sheet of ply and get 2 mini layouts out of it but it is a false economy I accept. Will have another look at the plan.

 

Hope to post an updated plan in the next day or two and some progress in the week after Christmas.

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tridentalx

Here's a photo of mine of the station at Gora with siding for engineer's vehicle. I should model this.

 

IMG_4395_zps1yef4bu2.jpg

 

And I think you are right that I should expand the station area at Hakone-Yumata a bit to allow for one of these (not that I have one).

 

IMG_4378_zps060vccyg.jpg

 

 

 

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tridentalx

Nice layout. Not sure mine will quite match up to that.

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tridentalx

Thanks mrp. That is close to the theme I was aiming for but I think it will be a while before I get there.

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kvp

There are 5 types of stations on the Hakone-Tozan:

-Gora on the top end of the line which is just 3 tracks with 2 side platforms and a storage siding (2 switches, 3 buffers)

-signal station and passenger station switchbacks with two platforms (4 switches, 2 buffers)

-bypass stations with two tracks and two side platforms and optional guard switch on the downhill side (2-3 switches, 0-1 bumpers)

-signal stops with a single side platform

-Hakone on the bottom with a similar layout as Gora, but it meshes with the cape gauge network and one track continues toward the shops as a double gauge section (originally it was double gauge much further with several passenger stations)

 

There are two storage sidings at each end station and a yard with a shed beyond Hakone. It was orinally at the middle of the line.

 

It's possible to simplify Gora by dropping the storage track or one of the platforms and Hakone by dropping the storage track, the cape gauge half of the shared platform (originally double gauge through), the other platform and only keeping one romancecar and one standard gauge platform as an island with a switch joining them on the down end which could represent the start of the double gauge section).

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tridentalx

Here's an updated track layout and 3d that includes the platforms at Gora and the storage siding (but noting that the point layout on the approach to the platforms could be simplified if it is Gora.

 

Also included is the circuit for main line trains not prototypical but the left hand end of the station area could be disguised with a train shed that the line runs into. Also added some tunnels and a bridge. Should be able to find room for one more bridge. I'm also considering raising the height a bit but that will have to wait until I have done some tests of how the Tomix unit copes with inclines.

 

Screen%20Shot%202015-12-20%20at%2011.39.

 

Screen%20Shot%202015-12-20%20at%2011.39.

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kvp

Two remarks:

-Gora is not a switchback, only a 3 track timesaver (only needs 2 turnouts to fan out from a single track)

-you could add a turnout to the right end of Hakone as there is one there as the 2nd track was mixed use until recently (when it was split with buffers in the middle), which would allow you to get rid of the crossover on the other side and start the uphill section right after the platform (as the prototype does)

Edited by kvp

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tridentalx

Two remarks:

-Gora is not a switchback, only a 3 track timesaver (only needs 2 turnouts to fan out from a single track)

-you could add a turnout to the right end of Hakone as there is one there as the 2nd track was mixed use until recently (when it was split with buffers in the middle), which would allow you to get rid of the crossover on the other side and start the uphill section right after the platform (as the prototype does)

 

Thanks KVP. Whilst you were typing I was changing Gora to be more in line with the actual layout. See below. Would also allow me to model the bus turntable next to the level crossing which I want to do.

 

I tried the crossover to the right end of Hakone but I was struggling with the track geometry a bit. Will have another go. I do intend to model the split platform.

 

PS the baseboard is now c1638mm x 702mm or ( 64 by 28 inches which I will round up to 5' 6" by 2' 6").

 

Screen%20Shot%202015-12-20%20at%2012.10.

Edited by tridentalx
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velotrain

These are some comments on aesthetics - if interested.

 

 

 

Mostly triggered by the 3D rendering, which I do realize doesn't depict the actual planned scenery.

 

 

 

It may require some shortening of Gora, but I would have the approach track angle back toward the far corner of the layout - perhaps even after that first turnout.  As it is now, all three stations are within about a foot of each other - they could have just built an incline up the hill!  There's a lot of straight track in this design, and introducing some gentle curves would really help it.  I realize it wouldn't be proto, but you're already making a lot of compromises to start with. 

 

 

No doubt you realize how close it is to the lower tracks when it emerges from the tunnel.  I'd suggest extending the tunnel for the lower level tracks into the curve on the right end of the layout - say somewhere below where the tunnel entrance for the Gora approach is.  Given the logical landforms, it doesn't really make sense for these tracks to be exposed beyond this point.  Unless the rear of the layout is also high - if not higher than Gora, it's going to look a bit silly perched up there all by itself.  Look at how the layout several guys referenced is stepped from front to back.

 

 

Shifting Gora would also allow you to angle the switchback tracks into the slope of the hill, so it isn't so close to and absolutely parallel to Hakone.  Covering the two lower tracks at the right rear corner will allow you to shift the Gora approach track over them, which also allows moving the switchback area deeper into the layout, which in turn means that you can create some (needed) visual separation between that area and Hakone.

 

 

 

Sorry for being so direct - it's my nature, and you're certainly free to ignore all of this.

 

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velotrain

-Gora is not a switchback, only a 3 track timesaver (only needs 2 turnouts to fan out from a single track)

 

Actually - that's known as an Inglenook.  A Timesaver contains a runaround track for more complex shunting.

 

http://tinyurl.com/o8a8v5f

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tridentalx

These are some comments on aesthetics - if interested.

 

 

 

Mostly triggered by the 3D rendering, which I do realize doesn't depict the actual planned scenery.

 

 

 

It may require some shortening of Gora, but I would have the approach track angle back toward the far corner of the layout - perhaps even after that first turnout.  As it is now, all three stations are within about a foot of each other - they could have just built an incline up the hill!  There's a lot of straight track in this design, and introducing some gentle curves would really help it.  I realize it wouldn't be proto, but you're already making a lot of compromises to start with. 

 

 

 

No doubt you realize how close it is to the lower tracks when it emerges from the tunnel.  I'd suggest extending the tunnel for the lower level tracks into the curve on the right end of the layout - say somewhere below where the tunnel entrance for the Gora approach is.  Given the logical landforms, it doesn't really make sense for these tracks to be exposed beyond this point.  Unless the rear of the layout is also high - if not higher than Gora, it's going to look a bit silly perched up there all by itself.  Look at how the layout several guys referenced is stepped from front to back.

 

 

Shifting Gora would also allow you to angle the switchback tracks into the slope of the hill, so it isn't so close to and absolutely parallel to Hakone.  Covering the two lower tracks at the right rear corner will allow you to shift the Gora approach track over them, which also allows moving the switchback area deeper into the layout, which in turn means that you can create some (needed) visual separation between that area and Hakone.

 

 

 

Sorry for being so direct - it's my nature, and you're certainly free to ignore all of this.

Thanks. This is my first attempt at using SCARM so was trying to keep the layout and geometry simple. Agree that the switch back would look better angled away from Hakone and yes the lower level can be covered. That was essential in an earlier version anyway as the tracks overlapped until I started using tighter curves. 

 

Plan is to lay it all out flat and see how it looks and then nudge some of the angles around. I can definitely lay Gora further back over the top of the lower tracks but I did want to leave space for the bus turntable which in real life sits just above and to the left of the crossing.

 

Keep suggestions coming. I don't want to get going with the carpentry and then have a brilliant suggestion made.

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kvp

I had a few ideas, but it turns out the text only description was way too long, so i drew them instead:

post-1969-0-12494500-1450739530_thumb.png

And the list:

-added the connecting turnout to Hakone

-removed the hidden turnout (not possible with the ramp starting right after Hakone

-hidden the loop tracks after the bumper inside the station building (seen as a tunnel bottom left)

-resized the switchback to fit 3 car trains

-resized Gora to fit at least a 2 car train on the 2nd track

-added a straight bridge at the back

 

Imho the switchback could stay behind the station building as one of the real ones is just above the rooftops below (slightly further up the line, but still completly parallel), so this is prototypical. I didn't add the bumper in the middle as the real one is relatively new and before that the track was dual use (mixed standard/cape gauge) and it allows either a romancecar and a suburban train or one romancecar and one hakone tozan train to stop at the station at the same time without making it longer.

 

These are just my ideas to make the layout operationally interesting and to fit the available sets into the stations without changing the size of the layout.

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JR 500系

Ah the Hakone Tozan line.. One of my favourite small lines that demonstrates amazing scenery and climbing.

 

Great looking plan! Will be interested to see it build up! Cheers!

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tridentalx

Thanks for the continuing feedback. I have nearly all the track I need. Just waiting for all the points - stuck in customs at the moment.

 

Will make a start next week but don't get too excited I am not a fast worker. My uk layout has been going two years already.

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tridentalx

Progress for today. Managed to get the Tomix unit up a 6cm in 100cm slope easily so that I think will be the absolute max gradient. Also laid out the track on an old baseboard. To fit most of the track on the baseboard I reduced the lengths of each circuit (except the outside one) by 248mm. The actual layout will reinstate these.

 

Some photos. First an overall view :

 

IMG_0566-001_zpsfdtavx8c.jpg

 

Then the switchback

 

IMG_0567-001_zpsko3jncoa.jpg

 

Finally Gora station ... need a few more platforms for this.

 

IMG_0568-001_zpsdbhixkwl.jpg

 

 

And just for a change, and completely off topic, here's my existing UK outline layout (in OO gauge)

 

IMG_7745_zpszgz31fq3.jpg

 

IMG_0266_zpsrjjwunln.jpg

 

IMG_7742_zpsdqaimpao.jpg

Edited by tridentalx
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kvp

Finally Gora station ... need a few more platforms for this.

Looks good, but the first platform looks a bit short (2.5 cars). You couldn't fit in a 3 car train and some sets are that long.

 

And just for a change, and completely off topic, here's my existing UK outline layout (in OO gauge)

Interesting! Do you have a trackplan or an overhead photo?

Edited by kvp

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tridentalx

Looks good, but the first platform looks a bit short (2.5 cars). You couldn't fit in a 3 car train and some sets are that long.

 

Interesting! Do you have a trackplan or an overhead photo?

 

That will get fixed when I add back the extra S248 on each part of the layout.

 

Yes, somewhere. Will dig it out (or make one in SCARM)

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katoftw

I would lengthen the upper station platforms.  Since the lower tracks on the left are tunnels, just bring the whole lot closer to the edge of the layout over the top of the tunnels.

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