Modeling Japanese industry?

[velotrain]

I've just realized that there are virtually no structure kits available for Japanese rail-served industry, and I very, very seldom see industry modeled on Japanese layouts.  I realize a lot of this is due to the fascination with passenger trains of all types.

 

Tomytec has a few small structures called "Industry", but in practice they're smaller than most of their houses and commercial buildings.  Greenmax has their enginehouse decked out as an industry.  I really don't know what else there might be.

 

Do any Japanese modelers (any scale) do any shunting at industries as part of operation?  I'd say this is probably the majority of the operations on many/most US layouts - at least when I've been involved in the Op Session.

 

Am I just imagining this?

[VJM]

Without Microtrains/Kadee style couplers, shunting in N gauge Japanese is nearly impossible, or at least very difficult.  I have an industrial area on my layout, which essentially comprises of a container yard, and a rolling stock scrap yard.  It's not too much of a stretch to kitbash some of the larger existing structures (we did it with some Greenmax buildings and the smaller Kato overhead station).  It's not something that I do shunting operations in though.

 

In many ways, I find Japanese modelling is about just running the trains rather than simulating technical operations.

[inobu]

I think they have an extremely efficient freight transport system which has a lot to do with container size. It reminds me of ATM (Asynchronous Transfer Mode) data transport. This mode of data was extremely efficient.

using a set size of data packets. I don't think they have the large distribution hubs like we do here and there is not much to see or do unlike here in the US.

 

Remember Japan is slightly larger than California and Oregon and sea ports around the whole country. 

 

 

Inobu

Edited November 14, 2015 by inobu

[velotrain]

Thanks to both for the comments.  I know non-containerized freight was common in the Showa era.  Based on the rolling stock that is produced (World Craft, etc), someone must model this era, although maybe these layouts are little publicized.

 

Perhaps, just as "Japanese modelling is about just running the trains", the vast majority are only interested in running the very latest trains, so earlier eras are widely ignored - or quietly modeled by older men.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Afaik they only had container and tank car terminals.. And nowadays even container cars do carry oil tanks.

[katoftw]

Afaik they only had container and tank car terminals.. And nowadays even container cars do carry oil tanks.

Heard of Wamus?

[katoftw]

[velotrain]

^{Kato - is that supposed to be something that we can see?}

[katoftw]

A poor picture of pre-war era Japanese rail freight.

[railsquid]

Try this Google Image search for some random Showa-era freight trains.

[railsquid]

I've just realized that there are virtually no structure kits available for Japanese rail-served industry, and I very, very seldom see industry modeled on Japanese layouts.  I realize a lot of this is due to the fascination with passenger trains of all types.

 

Tomytec has a few small structures called "Industry", but in practice they're smaller than most of their houses and commercial buildings.  Greenmax has their enginehouse decked out as an industry.  I really don't know what else there might be.

 

Do any Japanese modelers (any scale) do any shunting at industries as part of operation?  I'd say this is probably the majority of the operations on many/most US layouts - at least when I've been involved in the Op Session.

 

Now you mention it, I don't recall seeing much in the way of freight-orientated layouts. That probably reflects the dominance of passenger traffic here; perhaps it's the US which is unusual due to the extreme dominance of freight, which makes it more natural to model that?

 

Thanks to both for the comments.  I know non-containerized freight was common in the Showa era.  Based on the rolling stock that is produced (World Craft, etc), someone must model this era, although maybe these layouts are little publicized.

 

Perhaps, just as "Japanese modelling is about just running the trains", the vast majority are only interested in running the very latest trains, so earlier eras are widely ignored - or quietly modeled by older men.

 

There's plenty of older stuff about, including wagons like the wamus katoftw mentions, and plenty of "nostalgic Showa-era" layouts, though any freight is likely to be limited to a couple of wamus in the local goods siding.

 

Here's a Google image search for freight-orientated layouts. This one looks like it uses some British card building kits...

[katoftw]

this one look interesting, followed squids lead.

 

http://www.kamotsu.jp/home.html

[HantuBlauLOL]

Heard of Wamus?

I don't think they were still operational now.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

This one [/url]looks like it uses some British card building kits...

Aaagh!!! Those Metcalfe kits get everywhere...and I'm sure that is a Farish class 04 behind the DD13.

 

My old Japanese layout had a shunting yard (although set in modern times so probably wrong on many levels).

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

Could we get away with this as part of a container terminal? http://www.vollmer-online.de/en/articles/art_7905.html (Ja, I know it's German)

[katoftw]

Tsurumi Line - Anyone ever modeled a layout based on it?

 

Now that Charles mentions it.  While you see some industry on layouts as scenery.  I haven't seen much as part of the operational layout.

Edited November 14, 2015 by katoftw

[railsquid]

I Googled for you ;)

[katoftw]

I Googled for you ;)

I believe that is what Charles would be looking for.  Although probably not enough ops for what he was chasing.

 

My theory would be that ops takes up a lot of space compared to a roundy roundy layout.  And we all know about space in Japan.  Hence the lack of ops on Japanese layouts.

 

Say you build a layout that has a 8x Koki wagon loading area.  You need 1.3m for shunt track, and 1.3m for load bay area.  And in a little more track for points.  That is a lot of space to find.

 

And I know.  Cos I'm still trying to figure out how to get it into my layout plans.

Edited November 14, 2015 by katoftw

[Das Steinkopf]

I really like this as a concept for a layout, it reminds me very much of the layouts designed by Iain Rice.

 

https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%E9%B6%B4%E8%A6%8B%E7%B7%9A+%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A6%E3%83%88&tbm=isch#imgrc=xrCw1JdTz-Qv0M%3A

[Das Steinkopf]

I believe that is what Charles would be looking for.  Although probably not enough ops for what he was chasing.

 

My theory would be that ops takes up a lot of space compared to a roundy roundy layout.  And we all know about space in Japan.  Hence the lack of ops on Japanese layouts.

 

Say you build a layout that has a 8x Koki wagon loading area.  You need 1.3m for shunt track, and 1.3m for load bay area.  And in a little more track for points.  That is a lot of space to find.

 

And I know.  Cos I'm still trying to figure out how to get it into my layout plans.

You can always use a bit of selective compression with the yard and have the head shunt run parallel with the main line, with a yard that takes a 9 car rake of Koki's you would only need about a 4 to 5 car long area for the loading bay as there tends to be a decent amount of track not in the loading bay. With this arrangement wagons can be shunted in and out of sidings as they are loaded or unloaded, I have watched a number of videos of DE10's and HD300's doing that. I have also been looking for a smaller yard design to use on a layout myself, Funamachi on the Iida line is an interesting example but I don't know what the current status is for that yard, there are plenty containers as well as some vehicles in the yard, there is however a possibly movable barrier that is placed over the line leading into the yard.

 

 

Nishi Hamamatu yard

 

Funamachi Yard

[HantuBlauLOL]

Btw, if I remember someone posted a 'drilling' operation with container.. One KoKi left on the yard, then a diesel shunter pick it up and left it on a small goods terminal..

[inobu]

Their rail system is tiered into three levels. Shinkansen, local commuter and freight. Freight being the most obscure. Because of that you won't find much in the way of modeling components. I don't think the Japanese find it appealing therefore companies don't provide merchandise to that segment.

 

I like freight for its operation. I don't find much enjoyment in watching trains go around and around. I converted all of my koki's to Kato couplers for operations but found that the yards are rather small.

 

My favorite train is the M250 Super rail cargo. It is the high speed cargo train that runs only at night from Tokyo and Osaka. There wasn't much to shunting as it is 16 cars which traveled from a to b, unload and load.

 

Freight in Japan is different than what we see in the U.S.

 

Their train system is linear based on the shape of the country and limited land mass. Their routs are east to west and limited north and south.

 

Inobu

[kvp]

I think japanse model manufacturers create lots of accessories for freight, but the types of freight operations are limited. Imho freight in Japan is quite efficient. There were 3 large eras, the oldest being the classic mixed small car, classically shunted and sorted era with hand loaded boxcars and similar classic equipment that mostly ended with the modernisation of the JNR. The 2nd is the optimised operations seen on many old films, with some sorting remaining but more and more unit trains or direct freight. The 3rd is the containerisation, which was first visible around the 1960ies and virtually eliminated most classic freight types except some of the bulk freight.

 

Container trains are rarely shunted on their way, but private firms still receiving freight by rail do handle them, but like the super rail cargo, container trains are loaded and unloaded very fast and efficiently with the train standing and the container loaders moving around. Smaller firms, especially those that don't transfer their freight to trucks (mostly because it's bulk freight) get their cars dropped on a storage siding and move them into the factory grounds with small shunters. This is where most operations are happening, at least most modern videos show this.

 

Freight in the USA is very similar and i've been watching some american webcams (mostly around Vancouver) for years now, and most of the operations are on unit trains or semi fixed rakes. The containers are being unloaded from the ships, placed on container cars and the rakes are assembed into longer trains, then moved across america, with empties returning. Bulk freight is similar, with grain and raw materials arriving from america in unit trains and moved to asia, without the rakes getting disconnected a single time. It's a very efficient and good freight system.

 

If you compare it with passenger operations, where mostly fixed set move on lines with minimal amount of turnouts (like efficient conveyor belts) and most operations are the split and merge of sets running together, you'll see that the same is happening with freight. Except these smaller sets are the semi fixed rakes that carry a unit of shipment. Yards are actually large, but squeezed into as little space as possible and fully optimized, which is imho a very japanese thing to do.

 

ps: If you want interesting freight operations, you'll need lots of small sidings and do freight pickup with small rakes that get assembled into a large freight train heading into the same direction, then getting split and dropped at each siding. Then these dropped cars get either transshipped to road or shunted into the factories. If you add a wharf, a container terminal a fish processing plant, an equipment manufacturing company and a general transfer yard, then you can create logistical tasks that require the cooperation of multiple local shunters and road locomotives to get for example one up and down freight together, then delivered. Important is that shunting is usually not done at central locations but where the cars originate or arrive, so it's important to get the rakes in the right order to minimise shunting time for the trains. Usable couplers are required only between each semi fixed set of cars and rapidos are good enough for this if you don't care about the look of the couplers. The problem is that instead of one large yard, you have to build several smaller ones right next to each industry or transshipping location and that can actually take up more space that a single sorting yard, but allows more interesting operations, especially with more operators.

Edited November 14, 2015 by kvp

[velotrain]

I really like this as a concept for a layout, it reminds me very much of the layouts designed by Iain Rice.

 

https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%E9%B6%B4%E8%A6%8B%E7%B7%9A+%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%A2%E3%82%A6%E3%83%88&tbm=isch#imgrc=xrCw1JdTz-Qv0M%3A

 

That is interesting - some of both worlds.

Is that a rebuilt Hiroshima dome across the river?

[inobu]

Velotrain,

 

As VJM said you need to swap out the couplers. I ordered the long reach gray couplers from Kato and replaced all of them. I did the tank cars and JOT framed cars as well.

 

 

I was wanting to swap out the M250 but those were too difficult.

 

Not too many people like freight operations for some reason. I spent a year trying to develop a better uncoupling system.

One guy thought it to be like the Kadee system which its no where close. The uncoupler has a 97% success rate. 

I even took it to Kato and they though nothing about it. That was 6 years ago so I just boxed it up.

 

Its a really good system. I had a ball with it. I guess we are a small percentage that like operations.

 

 

 

Inobu