Couple of technical questions on Japanese railways

[NGT6 1315]

Morning,

 

perhaps some of you with deeper knowledge about technical aspects of railway operations, specifically those in Japan, might help me out with a couple of questions. I may amend this thread if I should come up with additional questions in the future, but for the moment I would be interested in knowing the following items...

 

* What are the current limits for the 1.5 kV DC, 20 kV and 25 kV AC networks - if there is such a thing as a nationwide standard? Here in Germany (mostly 15 kV AC) 600 amps seem to be most common, with high-speed lines and commuter networks usually being fitted for 900 or indeed 1,000.

 

* From what I've seen in a couple of cab videos from Shinkansen sets, power controllers seem to operate such that pulling the handle backwards results in power being applied. Assuming this is correct, is this the standard setup on Japanese motive power?

 

* Also, it would seem to me that locomotives operating under DC power usually have both pantographs raised for the entire duration of the trip - the only exception I have seen thus far being an EF66-100 moving in to couple up to its train with only one pan up. Do you know what the reasoning behind always having both pans up might be from the Japanese point of view? Other mainly DC railways - the Belgian, Dutch and French ones springing to my mind - appear to have a practice of raising both pans only while getting under way - when the amperage is highest - and then lowering one pan after the train has picked up about, say, 15 to 20 kph of speed. Also, in the days before pantograph heads with multiple carbons were introduced in Germany engines also had to run with both pans up in order to prevent loss of contact between the pan and the wire.

 

* What is the maximum force the Japanese automatic couplers can withstand?

 

Thanks in advance !

[bikkuri bahn]

Those are good questions.  I can't answer the first one about amps as I'm not an engineer. The closest info re. amps on rolling stock I can find is volt ampere ratings of VVVF inverters.

 

Yes, it appears the standard for power controllers is to pull towards the driver to apply power.  Here is an example of the one handle type, which incorporates braking:

 

The third question seems to be quite common, but seemingly not answered much.  Once again I'm venturing into an area I know little about, but perhaps it has something to do with the low tension of overhead DC catenary lines, requiring two pantographs for adequate contact?  Also, in frosty or snowy conditions, the lead pantograph is used to melt/break any buildup on the wire.

 

Regarding couplers, are you referring to freight train couplers (knuckle type)?  Nowadays, most freight is container or tank, and trains are not very long, so couplers don't have to withstand long coal/ore train type loads.  Heavy loads like coal or ore moves by ship- as the steel mills are invariably on the coast, and these materials are imported.

 

Hopefully somebody else can give you more concise responses.

[NGT6 1315]

The third question seems to be quite common, but seemingly not answered much.  Once again I'm venturing into an area I know little about, but perhaps it has something to do with the low tension of overhead DC catenary lines, requiring two pantographs for adequate contact?  Also, in frosty or snowy conditions, the lead pantograph is used to melt/break any buildup on the wire.

 

 

Yes, the practice of raising both pans during severe icing conditions is also standard over here. However, when both pans are raised lower speed limits apply in order to avoid loss of contact by standing waves forming along the wire.

 

Another question came to my mind today - do any of you know the usual axle load limits both on the NG and SG networks?

[bikkuri bahn]

On the 1067mm network, the maximum axle load is 18 tons.  On the Tokaido and Sanyo Shinkansen, it's 16 tons.  Tohoku and Joetsu Shinkansen stock is built at max. 17 tons, except the E4 type, which tops out at 22 tons.

[NGT6 1315]

And another question, this time about the now retired 0 type Shinkansen. Would I be right in assuming that every pair of carriages forms a self-contained unit - from the electric side, that is? I'm asking because it would seem to me that each of the pantographs serves to supply two cars. And to expand on the same question, is there any high voltage busbar running through the entire length of the set so that, in the case of a pantograph failure, the carriages in question could be powered from the remaining pans?

 

Thanks .

[bikkuri bahn]

Whoah, I'm weak in the area of Shinkansen tech.  You may want to ask Dave Fossett (of Byun Byun fame) about that...

[NGT6 1315]

Whoah, I'm weak in the area of Shinkansen tech.  You may want to ask Dave Fossett (of Byun Byun fame) about that...

 

 

No problem . Is Dave still around, actually? I remember he closed his site (which I liked a lot) in April?

[bikkuri bahn]

Yes, he posts on the Jtrains site.

[bikkuri bahn]

What are the current limits for the 1.5 kV DC, 20 kV and 25 kV AC networks - if there is such a thing as a nationwide standard? Here in Germany (mostly 15 kV AC) 600 amps seem to be most common, with high-speed lines and commuter networks usually being fitted for 900 or indeed 1,000.

 

Tsubasa, it appears that on 1500v DC lines, the number is 1200 amps.  I got this figure from looking at specifications for VVVF inverters on the JR East E231 units, a good representative type:

 

http://www.tokyu-car.co.jp/eng/rs/pdf/e231.pdf

 

Also, look at this pdf presentation by a Mitsubishi representative about traction control systems, specifically IGBT power modules (switches) on page 9:

 

http://www.railforum.net/PresentacionesPonencias/2005/18%20-%20Material%20Rodante%20-%20Marzo%202005/10.35%20-%2010.55%20Yasuhiro%20Sekine%20-%20Mitsubishi.pdf

[bikkuri bahn]

Also, revisiting the two pantographs raised issue, and merely surmising here, but have you considered the possiblity that in regenerative braking mode, two pantographs must be raised, given the high voltages/amperage involved, especially if the other locomotive on the line is far away or not in powering mode?  Perhaps the two pantographs are left up in other situations as a matter of tradition and confidence in the maintenance standards of the railway line.

[bikkuri bahn]

Re. amps on 1500V dc lines.  Yesterday and today had the opportunity to ride both the Sanyo and Hankyu lines, and taking my preferred seat at the front on the right hand side passenger seat, I could see the ammeter in the driving cab.  Typically the ammeter goes up to 400-500 amps on acceleration, with occasional spikes to 600 on harder climbs.

[NGT6 1315]

Almost forgot about this thread - silly me . Thanks for your replies so far, guys!

 

One other item, though - how wide are pantograph heads in Japan?

[bill937ca]

 

* From what I've seen in a couple of cab videos from Shinkansen sets, power controllers seem to operate such that pulling the handle backwards results in power being applied. Assuming this is correct, is this the standard setup on Japanese motive power?

 

 

Many of the older trains use controllers more like a tram controller.  There are separate juice and brake handles.  Power is applied by moving through notches.

 

This is a JR Series 103.

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JNR_Tc103-235cab.jpg

 

EF210 has separate power and brake controls.

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EF210_COCKPIT.jpg

 

Private railways have often resused older control equipment until recent times as the traditional Japanese attitude was that waste was sinful.  

 

Muda, Mura, Muri!!

[NGT6 1315]

EF210 has separate power and brake controls.

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EF210_COCKPIT.jpg

 

 

Far as I can tell this is the case on most locomotives around the world, is it not? By the way, is the power handle usually located on the left or on the right on Japanese locomotives?

[bill937ca]

EF210 has separate power and brake controls.

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EF210_COCKPIT.jpg

 

 

Far as I can tell this is the case on most locomotives around the world, is it not? By the way, is the power handle usually located on the left or on the right on Japanese locomotives?

 

Power handle is left in the North America and Japan.  The explanation I have heard is most people are right handed and the brake handle is on the hand people are most accustomed to using.  I think most of us react with our right hand.

[NGT6 1315]

Power handle is left in the North America and Japan.  The explanation I have heard is most people are right handed and the brake handle is on the hand people are most accustomed to using.  I think most of us react with our right hand.

 

Likewise in Germany. However, the Swiss and the Italians, for example, usually place the power handle to the right and the brake valve to the left. That's why I asked .

 

Interesting thing with the right-handedness - didn't know this, but it does make sense when you think about it.

[NGT6 1315]

One more for this thread ... Is there actually any rule which specifies the number of headlights on motive power and their position? I'm asking because some engines, like the EH500, have three headlights in the usual triangular arrangement, while others, such as the EF210, have only two, and several kinds of EMUs, such as the new Keisei sets, have a cluster of four lamps roughly in the centre of the front.

[bikkuri bahn]

Regarding pantographs, looking at loading gauge diagrams, the flat portion (contact surface) of the pantos comes to around 1000~1100mm, though actual width may be less, as these are the max. dimensions.

 

Headlights- I think no hard rules for headlight placement, rather placement is a function of the intended usage of rolling stock in question, especially area where it will be running.  Here in Hokkaido, with long snowy winters, rolling stock headlight placement is for maximum visibility in inclement(blizzard) weather.  Also, much running through sparsely populated, dark country.  Think of your household automobile- if you live in an area with lots of fog, you would benefit from having foglights installed.

[bill937ca]

EF66 Cockpit

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDkT_0bz5Hk&feature=related

 

Tram type hand controller and brakes (1920s-1970s) and still very common on Japanese railways and streetcar lines.

 

 

Single lever controller

 

[Guest ___]

There might be some good technical data on here for you, Tsubasa: http://www.jrtr.net/start.html