Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
miyakoji

Tokyo Metro 13000 series and Tobu 70000 series

Recommended Posts

miyakoji

Metro and Tobu have apparently agreed on a basic design for two upcoming models, the Metro 13000 series and the Tobu 70000 series.  These will be used for services that interline between the Metro Hibiya Line and the Tobu Skytree Line.  Services are currently operated with a mixture of 3- and 5-door cars; these will all be 20m (sorry Toni) 4-door cars with longitudinal seating, run in 7-car formations.  They will come into service from 2016 to 2019.  The link below has an image showing the Metro car at top, the Tobu car in the middle, and then the Tobu car's interior at the bottom.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2015/06/18/100000.html

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Kabutoni

(sorry Toni)

 

NOOOOOOOOO~

 

TBH, this was already known for a year or two, so I've had plenty of emotional preparations. 7-car formations is also quite unique (in the Kanto area), so that makes up for the loss. I wonder what will become of the rolling stock that will be retired... I suspect replacement of the aging 8000 types in the Ryōmō area by the 70000 series and the Hibiya line trains being scrapped, or shipping to Indonesia.

Share this post


Link to post
Sacto1985

I think this is only part of the "freshening" of the commuter train fleet in the Tokyo area in preparation for the 2020 Summer Olympics. Expect announcements from JR East, Toei Subway, Tokyo Metro, Keisei, Tobu, Seibu, Keio, Odakyu, Tokyo and Keikyu in the next two years for new or heavily refurbished trainsets.

 

(A bit off-topic, but I expect soon an announcement from JR East about the long-awaited replacement for the aging 205 and 209 Series EMU's on the Musashino Line.)

Share this post


Link to post
bikkuri bahn

Nothing new for the Musashino Line, just more 209 series 500 subclass cascaded off the Sobu Line (related to the introduction of the E235 on the Yamanote Line) to replace the remaining 205 series.

Edited by bikkuri bahn

Share this post


Link to post
kvp

That half powered bogie arrangement is not really efficient, but at least power and weight distribuion will be even and having only one motor per bogie means less weight per car. Imho using one motor and driving both wheels would mean the same power consumption but much better traction properties, including better regenerative braking curves. (these cars are A1-1A, while Bo-Bo, Bo-2 and 2-2 were more common in the past and i would suggest B-B as a compromise) Afaik the two trains are identical, just the fronts are different, but these work just like cell phone covers. Also permanent magnet motor technology is sized up modell train tech, but works nicely. I do wonder what will be the demagnetization time and curve of the permanent magnets. (this determines the lifetime of the motors as the permanent magnets slowly degrade in use, which changes the power and speed characteristics of the motors)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Sacto1985

Nothing new for the Musashino Line, just more 209 series 500 subclass cascaded off the Sobu Line (related to the introduction of the E235 on the Yamanote Line) to replace the remaining 205 series.

 

However, since most of the 209 Series trainsets were built in the 1990's (and was designed with only an operational life of 15 years), these trainsets are soon approaching the point they need to be retired. That's why I think JR East will within the next 18 months announce that either a new E233 variant or a variant of the E235 now being developed for the Yamanote Line will replace the 209's--especially since the Musashino Line trains will go by a number of the planned venues of the 2020 Summer Olympics.

Share this post


Link to post
E6系

Hello,

 

It is also touted as futuristic design ... but I don't feel that from the images.  :(

Share this post


Link to post
Jace

That half powered bogie arrangement is not really efficient, but at least power and weight distribuion will be even and having only one motor per bogie means less weight per car. Imho using one motor and driving both wheels would mean the same power consumption but much better traction properties, including better regenerative braking curves. (these cars are A1-1A, while Bo-Bo, Bo-2 and 2-2 were more common in the past and i would suggest B-B as a compromise) Afaik the two trains are identical, just the fronts are different, but these work just like cell phone covers. Also permanent magnet motor technology is sized up modell train tech, but works nicely. I do wonder what will be the demagnetization time and curve of the permanent magnets. (this determines the lifetime of the motors as the permanent magnets slowly degrade in use, which changes the power and speed characteristics of the motors)

 

With this driving arrangement I'm assuming they'll be using the same bogies as on the Tokyo Metro 1000 series (http://www.nssmc.com/en/tech/report/nssmc/pdf/105-08.pdf). These have a single unpowered steering axle and a single drive axle. The benefit of this arrangement is that you don't need a complicated drive system on a powered, steerable axle. The drawbacks include what you've listed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
miyakoji

How much of an issue is traction (acceleration) for a passenger EMU?

Share this post


Link to post
kvp

 

The benefit of this arrangement is that you don't need a complicated drive system on a powered, steerable axle. The drawbacks include what you've listed. 

Thanks. This could mean they can get better traction if the mounting point is towards the powered axle, so more of the weight is on the powered wheel. Btw, the B arrangement i mentioned can use car mounted motors and cardan drives to power both wheels while leaving them steerable. This was used on some ancient hungarian trams. (the A-1 1-A arrangement was also used around the end of the 19th century for streetcars and some express subway stock, with smaller wheels for the unpowered axles http://www.villamosok.hu/metro/jarmu/favold/fav20d.jpg that can be compared with the normal all stops commuter stock http://www.villamosok.hu/metro/jarmu/favold/fav1x.jpg which had lower top speed but better acceleration)

 

 

How much of an issue is traction (acceleration) for a passenger EMU?

It depends on the service pattern. A long distance train with few stops don't have to accelerate fast, but a high speed commuter train or any train that runs mixed into high speed commuter traffic needs a high acceleration and deceleration to attain higher average speeds, by getting to and from line speed to a complete stop. This is why the usual JNR/JR mix was 2 power cars for one trailer car for many fast commuter trains or why some companies run all power car consists. Powering half of the wheels means a 1 to 1 overall mix, giving the same result as using motor-trailer pairs, which was also common in the past. The line also matters, as a more hilly line needs more power to climb steeper sections than a mostly flat line. Sometimes a company decided to make a 50% powered set as a default type and upgrade them to 100% power for steeper lines by powering both bogies.

Edited by kvp

Share this post


Link to post
ayokoi

Tokyo Metro 13000 series left the Kinki Sharyo factory on June 11 for Koshigaya Freight Terminal (Musashino Line,Saitama Pref).

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
katoftw

I look at the side of these and see 221/223/225/321 series trains.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
bikkuri bahn

I look at the side of these and see 221/223/225/321 series trains.

And thank goodness for that, otherwise everything running in Tokyo would look like an e231/Tokyu 5000 series from the side.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
bikkuri bahn

Railfans in the US often chase a particular train by car; in Japan, you can do it using a series of trains. Suffice to say I prefer the Japanese method

:-)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
railsquid

I don't think you'd have much luck chasing trains by car in the areas where most Japanese trains run anyway.

 

Anyway (not quite sure where train chasing comes into this thread) Tokyo Metro's newer trains, e.g. the new Ginza line ones and the 10000 series, are quite nicely designed with a bit of character which sets them apart inside and outside from the generic E231-variants.

Edited by railsquid

Share this post


Link to post
korat

Twitter photos from user @yuuji_nsk appear to show the cab ends uncovered for the first time.

 

http://twitter.com/yuuji_nsk/status/748388731476934656

http://twitter.com/yuuji_nsk/status/748389535663394816

 

Aside from a second windscreen wiper for the emergency exit door and different accent colors (already seen on the body stripes during delivery), pretty much about what you'd expect from the original renderings.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Robert46

Railfans in the US often chase a particular train by car; in Japan, you can do it using a series of trains. Suffice to say I prefer the Japanese method

:-)

 

Well, this is so true.. but unfortunately this can only happen in Japan as the only country operating so many types of trains with so many connected lines... :D

Share this post


Link to post
bikkuri bahn

The tracks at Kita Senju Station are already marked for stopping points for the seven car 13000 series trains, to aid drivers.

Share this post


Link to post
miyakoji

"Unboxing" of a new train.  Way more interesting than unboxing of video games :grin

 

by azumatakeshi

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×