Has anyone powered an Atlas die-cast model?

[velotrain]

I discovered that Atlas makes a range of interesting things, I gather in HO.  I like this steam tram set, available from China for under $30 with free shipping on U.S. eBay.

I would like separate additional coaches - even if the paint scheme is rather garish, but doubt they're available.

 

 

 

 

The below image is described as Kato-Atlas, in HOn30 scale, so I gather that Atlas also produced a plastic version powered by a Kato chassis.  Or, did they simply power the die-cast version?  It looks identical to the Atlas engine, so perhaps that's the case.  I have no idea how long ago this was produced, and if it also came with one trailer car. 

 

 

 

 

 

I discovered these after learning that models of Milan's Gamba de Lehn steam tram were very difficult to find and quite expensive.  I tried Shapeways, but my search for "HO steam tram" found 14461 products.  I wrote them, but my experience is that they are unwilling to improve the site's functionality.  AFAIC, they've become so dis-functional, that I likely will never again go there - unless I have a specific URL to what I'm looking for.

[Densha]

This tram is from a tram collection series by the European company Atlas Editions. It works subscription based, not telling you what the exact pricing is for every month but only telling you how inexpensive the first delivery is. From the second delivery and onwards the price "suddenly" increases ten times or so compared to the first delivery. Because you don't know what model you will get, except for the first delivery, many people put these models on auction websites so that people can get exactly those that they want. However, the prices people tend to ask for at those auctions are sometimes obviously ridiculous. If you find a motorized one, then it means that someone motorized it by themselves.

 

Links:

This is the official UK page: http://www.atlaseditions.co.uk/collection/trams/Blackpool-Balloon-Tram.html

Some of the trams included in the collection: https://tramways.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/atlas-edition-tram-models/

Some Dutch pages on motorizing the Atlas Edition models:

http://www.spoorforum.nl/spoorforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=6344

http://www.stameldam.nl/TRAMS-EDITIONS-ATLAS.html

http://www.skiptram.nl/?%28OM%29BOUWTIPS_SKIPtram:ATLAS_modellen

Googling for "atlas editions tram" should also give some info.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Densha

[velotrain]

Yeah, I had seen a warning for the set entrapment on another site.

 

Since these are all coming from China, I'm guessing that the factory produced some for their own use beyond the Atlas sets.  Either that, or Atlas does this themselves.

 

I want more than one coach, so am asking those sellers not offering free shipping, how much the shipping would be if I bought 2 or 3 sets.

 

I had found a couple of videos on powered units, apparently using a Kato N chassis, and this is apparently a relatively easy drop in.

 

Then I found a Dutch modeling forum with a long thread on powering these.

 

If you don't use a browser with auto translation, search for this URL and then select translate.  I don't know about other languages, but the English is not very clear.

 

http://www.spoorforum.nl/spoorforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=6344&sid=c2e5fe535a55a4d805cac1cb7ea913f5

 

However, this will not open the photos, so you need to access the Dutch version of the site to see the images.

 

It appears that they converted the steam tram to SG HO using a Halling drive unit, and with a fair amount of work needed on the tram to make it fit.  I may try a shallower underfloor unit.  The post mentions that the proto is NG (likely meter gauge), so it takes some effort to get an HO drive to fit, and the same is true for HO trucks on the coaches.  The railings on the coach platforms look quite nicely done.

[Densha]

Using this URL I can see both the English translation and the images: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spoorforum.nl%2Fspoorforum%2FphpBB3%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D59%26t%3D6344

 

There's a model or two I may want to get myself someday, but I'm not entirely sure yet.

 

Also, note that these are not die-cast but simply plastic models.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Densha

[velotrain]

> Also, note that these are not die-cast but simply plastic models.

.

I have no experience with them, and they're listed as die-cast on eBay.

.

 

But that just makes the surgery easier ;-)  

.

 

I did one die-cast conversion almost 20 years ago, bashing the Ertl Mavis into a HOn30 critter, and 

it was a lot of nasty drilling and filing - including opening up all of the windows.

.

http://www.hon30.org/more-mavis/

.

 

Thanks for the improved link.  Now - if Google only understood the Dutch language, vs. some individual words  ;-)

[Densha]

If there's a specific part you want translated, I can help you out. I'm Dutch-speaking myself after all. ;)

[Matteo_IT]

In Italy all this is unavailable 

[Kabutoni]

 I tried Shapeways, but my search for "HO steam tram" found 14461 products.  I wrote them, but my experience is that they are unwilling to improve the site's functionality.  AFAIC, they've become so dis-functional, that I likely will never again go there - unless I have a specific URL to what I'm looking for.

 

To play the devil's advocate: if it is any steam tram you're looking for, regardless of the prototype, you have to search within 'Minitatures'. Shapeways is not Google, so you have to use the search function in the classic way: https://www.shapeways.com/search?q=steam+AND+tram (shows 10 products). Using 'AND' in your search function will limit the search to the combination both words, instead of search for both of these words separately from each other.

 

On the other hand, if the creator doesn't add tags accordingly to match the model, it will never show up in any search. That however is the creator's fault and not Shapeways'. In the end, it's the creators' own responsibility to market his/her creations according to the established methods on that website.

[velotrain]

In Italy all this is unavailable 

 

It may not be sold there, but I don't see why you can't get it via eBay in another country.

[velotrain]

Thanks Toni - do they document that on the site?  The odd thing is that when I complained, the SW person responding said they tried it and got even more hits than I did!

 

 

Not just Google, but I thought almost all contemporary sites employed a similar search.  I'm used to sometimes putting quotes around the phrase so it doesn't look for just one of the words.  I don't know what era that "classic way" is from, but don't believe I've ever seen it before - and I consider myself retro ;-)  Hobbylinc is another site with an abysmal search, but perhaps they also are old style.  The prices aren't the best, but they might have the widest range of products of any one hobby site.

 

 

 

I also have a policy of not buying anything unless there is a photo of the 3D printed object - I've been burned by too many renderings that are closer to vapor ware.  They only show what the designer has in mind, and don't give any indication of whether the machine can actually produce it as shown.

 

[Kabutoni]

I don't know if it's documented anywhere, but it's a method that works most of the time with basic scripted websites like these. Not all the staff working in companies that maintain the site and do troubleshooting know about the core workings of their website... It's not a real good policy, but sometimes there is only so much you can do...

 

I also have a policy of not buying anything unless there is a photo of the 3D printed object - I've been burned by too many renderings that are closer to vapor ware.  They only show what the designer has in mind, and don't give any indication of whether the machine can actually produce it as shown.

 

Very true, that's why all things I have that aren't printed yet are on BETA. Even my tram project is still on BETA, as I have only done prototype printing. However, because I have already experience with printing in 3D, I am confident of my other designs' outcome -now in test printing phase actually.

[cteno4]

Charles,

 

AND is the absolute old school! Boolean searches were pre Internet! AND, OR, and NOT and are still burried in most seach functions.

 

Toni is right it's dependent on the seller to tag things properly to get the best search results. Otherwise it requires a huge investment I either internal indexing or search engine licensing. They are a rapidly growing business so it's not always going to be how you want it. Also they are catering to a very wide market as well.

 

I'm getting several of Toni's prints soon and will get him Picts to post with the listings.

 

I've had the opposite experience with shapeways, everything has come through very well w.o Picts of the final product. I has one piece of mow equipment with a roof suspended from fine poles that did not print well due to the sagging supports and they offered to reprint for free or a $10 coupon for more printing. It was a simple fix to just do new support poles from styrene to support the roof. Only rub I have is the print time, but I understand the logistics of ganging up print runs to get the most efficient use of the printers.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

Toni is right it's dependent on the seller to tag things properly to get the best search results.

 

I've had the opposite experience with shapeways, everything has come through very well w.o Picts of the final product. I has one piece of mow equipment with a roof suspended from fine poles that did not print well due to the sagging supports and they offered to reprint for free

 

I've been amazed at how many "sellers" don't actually seem interested in selling, with zero description of the product, etc.  I can only think that these items are intended for a relatively closed group who hear about it through other channels and the seller assumes no one else would be interested.

 

Others will be quite helpful, telling you what chassis a superstructure is intended for, any necessary mods, etc.

 

The "reprint for free" reminds me of a sign I saw on Cape Breton in Nova Scotia: "Whale Watch - If no whales, second day free".

My immediate thought was "great - waste one day, and you get to waste a second day for free"

 

As if the defective product would somehow print better the second time around.  Yeah, right.

 

Besides a similar structural problem on a overly fragile Aussie cane car, more common are details shown on a rendering that just aren't there on the actual product.

 

"Show me a photo"

[HantuBlauLOL]

Stoomtram? Those things were so many back then here..

 

I think you can power it with a Kato 11-103..

[velotrain]

I think you can power it with a Kato 11-103..

 

That would likely work for a NG version, and is probably what was used on the conversion in the video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYveit9dAlo

 

Right now I'm on the hunt for a HO chassis that would work.

 

==>>  Does Kato make anything similar to the 11-103 in HO scale?

 

The reviews of the Tenshodo SPUD that I've seen suggest that it starts moving at a rather high rate of speed, and I think it only has a 1:14 gear ratio, which doesn't help slow speed running.

 

Related to that, I was reading in the Gnatterbox about a guy who powers all of his models with a gear ratio of 1:240 - OR higher!  

http://gn15.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3990

He obviously isn't running Shinkansen  ;-)

 

The Black Beetle  http://motorbogies.com/  is more highly regarded, but the prices are quite high and shipping from England is never cheap.  On the plus side, these are built to order and offer a range of wheelbases and wheel sizes.

 

The Dutch fellow used a Halling, which I've worked with before and I might end up there, but he had to remove a lot of the boiler to get it to fit.

 

The reviews of the NWSL Stanton drive that I've seen are not great.

 

Any other options out there for HO underfloor drives?

[velotrain]

Speaking of steam trams, I've just watched a most excellent and wonderfully produced video by Ted Polet, well known in British - Dutch NG circles for his 009 modeling.  Since it's clearly not on-board, I presume the sounds were added in post-production.

 

Warning:  fans of Shinkansen videos might want to avoid this, as the trains move

R E A L L Y    S L O W L Y    -  but the modeling is truly top notch, with a level of realism rarely achieved.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4qZgLKD2aM

[Mr Frosty]

I was going to suggest the black beetle. They are very well regarded by narrow gauge modellers who need good slow running.

[velotrain]

Thanks for the confirmation Frosty, especially on the slow speed running.  I believe their gearing isn't particularly low either, but a well-designed unit helps there.  I'm considering getting 2-3 sets, so I can have a more realistic group of trailer cars.  I am uncertain if I will make these NG or SG, but in any event planned to have at least one engine in each camp.  When I looked at the site, I think there was a 6-10 week lead time on getting a Beetle.

 

I'm not crazy about the coach's colors, but OTOH I would be hesitant to paint over all that fine lining.  I would plan to make the chassis of each black, or at least dark gray.

 

The streets of 1884 Bern must have been remarkably clean to justify a white undercarriage ;-)

[Mr Frosty]

I wonder if you could tone it down a bit using weathering powders?

[cteno4]

I've been amazed at how many "sellers" don't actually seem interested in selling, with zero description of the product, etc.  I can only think that these items are intended for a relatively closed group who hear about it through other channels and the seller assumes no one else would be interested.

 

Others will be quite helpful, telling you what chassis a superstructure is intended for, any necessary mods, etc.

 

The "reprint for free" reminds me of a sign I saw on Cape Breton in Nova Scotia: "Whale Watch - If no whales, second day free".

My immediate thought was "great - waste one day, and you get to waste a second day for free"

 

As if the defective product would somehow print better the second time around.  Yeah, right.

 

Besides a similar structural problem on a overly fragile Aussie cane car, more common are details shown on a rendering that just aren't there on the actual product.

 

"Show me a photo"

 

Yes with something like this where you have a whole range of people submitting you will get some bad ones, but there are lots of great ones in there as well, so throwing the baby out with the bathwater there. Yes some are just really publicized to a small group outside shape ways, i found one thing this way a year or so ago that i would have not brought up in the search. not sure if they just wanted to lay low or just did not know about tags and think about descriptions and such. many folks just don't get that part of marketing when doing something like this, they just don't have the experience to make that connection even though it seems obvious (i have this with a few clients that have business directories and even there businesses will do horrid jobs of describing themselves well!).

 

3D printing is not perfect and yes it does reprint correctly the second time much of the time or it may not. In this case i could have gotten a free second one if i wanted as even if the same issue happened i could have easily fixed it. This is not perfect yet but its a huge step forward in what can be done. product was not all that defective, simple fixes to make it perfectly right. in this situation it was probably a better solution anyway if it printed correctly as the styrene rod was stronger. folks will start to figure out where doing something like this saying use a 1mm styrene rod or brass stock here and have the sockets for it instead of trying to print it might be a better path. again its pretty new here and folks are figuring it out!

 

if you want something truly rare like this you will either need to pony up thousands for a custom model builder, do it yourself, or take some risks with folks doing some 3D printing like this. If something looks really promising, contact the author. I did this with a guy doing superb JSDF vehicles that he was not selling and he was a very nice chap but just not wanting to sell them a the time. it was too bad as they were great looking in detail. Yes like anything where folks can submit stuff you can get crap but also amazing stuff. it will eventually be that the great stuff will get marketed and publizized in the appropriate market (like toni on this forum) and shape ways just does the printing and fulfillment. i don't think shape ways wants to get too much into the full amazon side of the business, but later they may. i would rather see them spending most of their energy on making the printing better and faster than worrying about how to help folks market their products.

 

whale watching is a poor example as i use to do a lot of whale work. rarely would you get skunked two days in a row unless horrid weather and usually the whale watching boats don't go out then (us researchers would though), so you would have a very good bet to get them on the second day! Whale watching is not something you can guarantee the customer they will see whales so the offer is a nice one in case that does happen. glass half empty or full here. Not everything in life is guaranteed and not much fun if you expect or demand it all of it to be...

 

jeff

[velotrain]

_{Here's a photo of a powered NG tram that was toned down, but he either didn't convert the trailer car or didn't post a photo of it.  He also painted the skirt.}

 

_{I think it looks quite good, but would likely remove the obvious plastic from the end windows.  Also maybe the side cage, and just presume the crew walk very carefully, or perhaps install a brass rod at handrail height.  The Atlas painted piping really helps the overall look, especially since so much of it stands free of the boiler.}

 

 

[velotrain]

Jeff - I think you misconstrued several of my comments.

 

> so throwing the baby out with the bathwater there.

 

I was commenting on some sellers not seeming like they really want to sell their items, and not saying anything negative about any of the sellers - which is what you seem to be suggesting.  I do have issues with the structure of the site, but that's Shapeways and not the designers.

 

> 3D printing is not perfect and yes it does reprint correctly the second time much of the time or it may not.

 

I hadn't realized that the outcome could be different the second time.

 

> folks will start to figure out where doing something like this saying use a 1mm styrene rod or brass stock here and have the sockets for it instead of trying to print it might be a better path.

 

This is something that I've thought for years - recognizing that the process doesn't work for everything, and creating "combo kits", utilizying 3D printing and traditional materials, using each where they are the best solution.  A prime example is the one you gave - styrene rod or brass / nickel silver for thin supporting structures.  However, that means the seller needing to interact separately with the SW buyer, when I suspect that many of them like the idea of designing something and then letting someone else take care of production, billing, shipping, etc.

 

> if you want something truly rare like this you will either need to pony up thousands for a custom model builder, do it yourself, or take some risks with folks doing some 3D printing like this.

 

I think we all know that.

 

> If something looks really promising, contact the author.

 

I've contacted several designers on varying issues, and they were usually thankful for the input.

 

>  i don't think shape ways wants to get too much into the full amazon side of the business, but later they may. i would rather see them spending most of their energy on making the printing better and faster than worrying about how to help folks market their products.

 

A long time ago I suggested they intervene with designers who have no description, or who were offering renderings of stuff that clearly could not be cleanly printed.  I was particularly bothered by sellers who said that hadn't tested a design, but "thought it would work".  I consider it unethical to offer something for sale that you haven't even test printed.

 

I now accept that it is up to each designer to decide if they're just creating something for fun, or they really want to sell it, and if the latter it is up to them to present the product in a manner that folks will want to and feel comfortable buying it.

 

> whale watching is a poor example

 

I'll accept your professional experience, while not wanting to commit a second day of my vacation to something that was a bust on the first day I tried it.  I didn't go, but took a photo of the sign because I thought it was funny.

[cteno4]

Charles,

 

Sorry I see your points but just thought it was overly hopeful that you can get all you were asking for from shapeways. It's a two edge sword of allowing that rare thing to get done that would never be done commercially, but that means you need lots of designers and that means getting a wide range and volume that can be difficult to sift thru. I think it's a wonderful resource even if a little difficult to sift thru and with some varying quality to find those unique pieces! I do think the good stuff will rise to the top eventually to be popularized in places like JNS here to those who are particularly interested. This is the common thing with bisunesses when they put up a web site and think the can stop all other marketing and get sold on only focusing on high search engine ranking or general social media blather. They forget that there still needs to be targeted marketing to their core markets to really drive the best customers to their site and doors.

 

Yeah I am looking forward to when kits are a mix of 3d print, lasercut materials and just some basic structural elements (where strength is needed) and get the best in price, performance, detail, etc from each technique.

 

My point with the whale watching is that not everything can be guarenteed, so at times you have to take a risk or spend a bit more to get what you want. With whale watching that may be planning on spending two days if you really want to make sure to see them! I've told this to so many folks and many get upset like you that they should waste a second day but they want the whales! Same with models and 3d printing like this IMHO.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

I've told this to so many folks and many get upset like you that they should waste a second day but they want the whales!

 

Still a bit off. 

 

I wasn't upset at all - I just took a photo and thought I wasn't interested in it for even one day.  I had gone on a whale watch out of Boston before that and it satisfied my lifelong need.

 

> Same with models and 3d printing like this IMHO.

 

I evaluate what's out there and make my decision, just as each of us does.  I'm not making a global evaluation for everyone.

[cteno4]

Charles,

 

Might ping the riches at east penn I bet they have some ideas.

 

Jeff